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Benjamin Fulford On
Jeff Rense -- Part Two
7-26-7

Hours 1, 2 and 3

RENSE: Welcome back. I hope you had a great weekend. And we are of course in the heat of the summer -- most of the US surrounded by constant reports of bizarre weather. I don't have to go into details -- most of you have seen examples of it on the Internet and in the mainstream media as well. It's a hot one.

Certainly a hot one again tonight on the program. Benjamin Fulford...

FULFORD: Hello!

RENSE: Hi, Ben. Hang on. Let me do a brief intro here, and then we'll get right to you.

For our listeners who don't know, Mr. Fulford is a Tokyo-based journalist who appeared on this program on July the 5th, 2007, making some very radical -- and some would say hopeful -- claims.

According to Benjamin Fulford, a Chinese secret society with 6 million members, including 1.8 million Asian gangsters and 100,000 professional assassins, have targeted Illuminati members who they perceive to have world depopulation plans -- a subject we have talked about for many years on this program, off and on. That is the depopulation effort -- Global 2000, among others.

They contacted Ben Fulford, a Canadian expatriate, after he warned that the Illuminati planned to reduce the Asian population to about half a billion people -- about 500 million -- by means of racial or genetic-specific biological weapons.

Remember SARS? Well, in his first conversation, SARS was pointed out by Ben Fulford as being quite likely an Asia-specific or ethno-specific weapon -- a biological weapon. I noticed [this] actually when it happened, and it broke out in the Orient and made its way here to Canada.

In a Canadian newspaper they published all the photographs of the fatal SARS victims in Canada. About 95 percent of them were Asian. I immediately said there was something suspicious about that, and drew some conclusions, which may well be true.

With Ben Fulford as their spokesman now, the word is out. This Asian - Chinese - secret society is taking on the Illuminati. At least that's the story.

Tonight, in Part Two of our exclusive conversation with Ben Fulford, we're going to cover many new issues as well as expand on the earlier ones as well. I will also open the phones a bit later on for your questions.

As you might well imagine, Mr. Fulford's first visit here rattled and rumbled its way around the world on the Internet, and continues to do so tonight. It's also an appearance you can hear for free on Rense.com right now.

You can also read all the stories relating to that first visit on July the 5th, and several essays written by Mr. Fulford himself.

You also may recall he was the Asia-Pacific bureau chief for eight years for Forbes magazine and remains a professional journalist, as I said, based in Tokyo, Japan, where we go now to say hello. Welcome back, Benjamin Fulford.

Thanks for being here, Ben!

FULFORD: Yeah, it's a great pleasure. A great honor.

RENSE: The pleasure is mine, sir. We covered so many things last time, and there are a lot of things to go over tonight. We're going to try to bring many of those earlier things into further focus, delineate some, and elaborate on others.

One of the things that intrigued me -- and when you mentioned it, I was certainly one of maybe millions who began looking up, on Google or other search engines, information about your great grandfather -- G.T. Fulford.

That was fascinating to hear about his interest, support and apparent friendship with Nikola Tesla.

He was apparently murdered. He died in an automobile accident, and I think it was 1905. Was that the year of his death?

FULFORD: Yes, it was.

RENSE: There sure as hell weren't a lot of cars running in 1905. One wonders. [Laughs]

FULFORD: I believe it was the first fatal car accident in Canadian history, although it took place in Massachusetts.

RENSE: Bizarre. Bizarre. Cars back then didn't do much more than 20-25 miles an hour, I wouldn't think.

FULFORD: Yeah. There was an erratic driver who somehow managed to crash through to my great grandfather in a horse-drawn bus, while he, himself, (the driver) stayed perfectly safe.

RENSE: He struck your grandfather with the car?

FULFORD: He managed to get the car and hit a horse-drawn bus in such a way that only my great grandfather died.

RENSE: A horse-drawn bus.

FULFORD: Yes. [clears throat]

RENSE: Now that's something I've seen in old photographs, of course. This is even more bizarre.

Now at the time, your grandfather was a very wealthy man. He was not very old, either. What was he, 50 years old? 45 to 50?

FULFORD: Yeah. He was 50. He was the largest shareholder in General Electric and he was about to buy a company that we know of today as General Motors.

RENSE: Huh. And he had made his fortune, as I recall reading, in patenting early medicines -- so-called modern medicines.

FULFORD: Yeah. The big hit was something called Fulford's Pink Pills for Pale People, which were basically iron tablets. In those days everyone had anemia, because of the new food processing technology.

RENSE: Huh. Now with all the iron added to foods, people have overdoses of iron.

FULFORD: Back then they had anemia.

I know there was sort of a spooky thing about him. This is something that makes you wonder.

The longest serving prime minister in Canadian history was named Kinsey King (ph). He was Prime Minister for more than 20 years, and was considered to have been a very good Prime Minister.

When he died, they found diaries. They found he made his political decisions by consulting a crystal ball, and contacting spirits.

RENSE: [Laughs] I shouldn't laugh, because the Reagans did much the same, of course. Nancy Reagan, it is said, an awful lot of input was from her psychic in San Francisco.

FULFORD: Yeah. The other thing is that [the Prime Minister's] psychic was my great-grandmother.

RENSE: Oh really!

FULFORD: And the person he was consulting was my great-grandfather!

RENSE: And the crystal ball was just a...

FULFORD: Well, it was supposed to [help you] hypnotize yourself so you could get in touch with the spirit world, something like that.

RENSE: Run that by me again. Your great-grandmother was the psychic he consulted...

FULFORD: Yeah.

RENSE: And your great-grandfather was...

FULFORD: The spirit he was getting advice from.

RENSE: Now when you say spirit, are you saying spirit after your grandfather was killed?

FULFORD: Yes. I am talking about the 1930s and 40s.

RENSE: How strange. This was going on for a long time, apparently. And this was in his private diary! Huh.

FULFORD: Yep. So it's one of those more bizarre [things like,] "You'll have to wait until midnight, Friday the 13th, to make the more important decisions."

RENSE: [Laughs] Well, that's good. Why not? We have a lot of precedents.

It is also a fact that many, if not most -- a lot of you may wince at this -- major corporations and businesses actually do consult with psychics, and some actually have some on the payroll. And they won't make a major decision without clearing it with the psychic.

Astrology is used, of course -- it's not a crystal ball technology, necessarily. But that's fascinating. I didn't know [that]. Tell me more, if there is any.

FULFORD: Well, the other thing was that you were supposed to look at the first dream of the night, and that was supposed to be predictive. A lot of this was taught to me by my grandmother.

I think that all the rich people use fortune-telling. Forget about anything psychic. People want to know what's going to happen in the future. If they have it for oil markets, for example -- oil futures or something -- this way of predicting or looking forward into the future, and they discourage that in us, right?

But if it rains up in the mountains, you can predict the river will flow higher later on -- so there's a lot of stuff you can predict about the future that is based on hard science. [The powers that be] try to discourage us from looking into the future, but big corporations and rich people all do that. They hire two thousand-dollar-an-hour psychics out there.

RENSE: I've heard of them. We've talked about them for many years. It is true that as a culture, young people are immediately jumped upon and thwarted when they start to report a so-called psychic experience -- whether they see colors around people, whether they talk to spirits, whether they have a spirit or invisible friends.

In fact, in Britain, there was a major paper -- just as a quick aside here -- last week that posted it, maybe you saw it. Parents are now being advised to encourage their young children when they talk about having invisible playmates or invisible friends. Very interesting indeed.

FULFORD: In any case, I want to talk more about the Rockefellers.

RENSE: I'm sure they're listening, so go right ahead. [Laughs]

FULFORD: This is of vital interest. For years, the Japanese were telling me that the Americans were ruled as a monarchy by the Rockefellers. I'm thinking, "These people are superstitious Orientals." And they're thinking, "Oh, these Westerners are so brainwashed, they don't even know they're brainwashed."

I finally started doing the research. For example, just before my appearance on this show, I went and met a senior boss of the Yamaguchi crime syndicate. This is a hundred thousand -- well, they control most of the gangsters in Japan.

[Bumper music begins]

They told me that the way the US government works is a little bit like the diamond monopolies, from the New York diamond cartel.

RENSE: Okay, let me ask you to hold it right there. We'll pause, do our business and pick this right back up. Was that Yamaguchi crime syndicate?

FULFORD: Yamaguchi crime syndicate.

RENSE: Okay, very good. Stay right there, Ben. We'll pause and come right back. Part Two of our conversation exclusive here, for you, with journalist Benjamin Fulford, live from Japan. We'll be right back.

[Break]

RENSE: All right, we're back with you and Ben Fulford. Ben, you went to see the head of a major crime family.

FULFORD: A fifty-thousand member gang.

RENSE: Ok. Excuse me. Just by way of journalism, don't give away details you don't need to. How did you get word to this person? Is it something where they said, "Sure, Ben, come on down, let's talk?" Then I have a follow-up question after that.

FULFORD: I've known people for years and years now. I've been quite friendly with them. I don't do any business with them, but we trade information.

I started as a financial journalist. When I realized that all the bank money was disappearing into gangsters' drug companies, I started cultivating these sources. And I got a very high-level one. I've known them for years.

RENSE: Very good. In short, what was their response to your first visit on the program, from the secret society? Expand upon the question, and then we'll go back to the specifics of what you asked them.

What was the response of those people, whose interests you are representing, to your first visit on the program, your appearance on Rense.com and so forth?

FULFORD: They generally were happy with it, but they told me it was very uncouth of me to have been so threatening and blustery. Stuff like that is usually [handled by saying], "Yes, I'm sad", and implicit -- you're supposed to be more polite, you know?

RENSE: That would seem to be the Asian MO, and I can understand that, although the point was made. I think that was the larger issue at hand -- to make the point. And I think you did it very clearly and succinctly.

All right. Back to the issue of your talk with the head of this large Asian syndicate.

FULFORD: These people have told me, yes, we subcontract for the Rockefellers. The way the world of crime runs is these people control the money and they control the oil.

Just like when you have the De Beers diamond monopoly, you have what they call this kite (ph). A bunch of men get together in a room, and they have a pile of diamonds. They divide them into a pile for each, and then these people decide who gets what down the stream.

They do the same with oil and with cash. A small group of men get together and they come up with themes. They came up with this war on terror theme. The idea was to find an excuse to seize all the central Asian oil resources. At the same time, they wanted to find an excuse to sell lots more weapons. And they want to expand their geopolitical goals by subduing China in the longer term.

So this is how the word really works. It's a bunch of men in a secret room who control the dollars and oil, and decide everything. I don't think that is the proper way for a planet to be managed. These people are gangsters. So instead of having the meanest bullies run the planet, I would think a committee of the largest saviors would be better.

RENSE: It does seem to be a rat race amongst the meanest killer, rapist, environmentally destructive, damaging, annihilating bullies of them all. You're right. The meanest SOB, most psychopathic SOB on the planet wins.

FULFORD: What happened to me was I suddenly realized the Japanese have enough money to end poverty, stop all environmental destruction in a matter of two or three years.

They could wipe poverty, disease and environmental destruction from this planet. And ignorance. It would be so easy!

So I started asking, "Why don't you do this?" And they finally told me the truth. "The Rockefellers won't let us do it. They want that money for themselves, so they can make weapons and play with the world as if it was their own."

RENSE: And they don't give a good god-damn about the individual at all. That's the bottom line.

FULFORD: No, they think of them as serfs, or that there's too many of them -- they want a big purge.

These people think of themselves as separate.

I talked to another scholar. People were upset when I said Abraham was Hammurabi. What we really have to do is go back to Nimrod in order to understand this whole situation.

There were a lot of people living in Babylonia, farming people. Five thousand seven hundred and seventy-one years ago, they were invaded by Hixsoth, (ph) who were a tribe of pastorials (ph). And they came and said, "There's got to be a way to herd humans the way we herd sheep."

They are the people who have ever since been herding people.

RENSE: Herding and culling people.

FULFORD: And culling. Yes. They think they are entitled to their cull -- they can take young women, play with them and then kill them. Whatever. That's their right, [they believe].

RENSE: They think they're demigods.

FULFORD: I know a princess who met them. They said, "Yeah, we're gods. David Rockefeller is Zeus." They think of themselves as God, but they're not.

They've inbred themselves into stupidity, and they're in very, very severe danger right now. I'm trying to save their lives, and they don't realize it.

If I were them, I would be terrified. You've got 85 percent of the American public against them. When the people in the West catch on to their existence, they're going to be furious. That's why they have to keep themselves secret. They spend all this energy fighting, trying to keep people from being aware that they exist.

So here they are. Everyone on the planet hates them now. They have no support. Russia is against them, China is against them, Japan has turned against them, India...

RENSE: Russia remembers, almost down at the genetic level, what those people did to their country over the last century. The Bolsheviks, the slaughter, the horrible, horrible decimation and liquidation of probably well over 50 million people, many of whom were Christians. Not that [their religion] really matters, but that's the issue.

[Bumper music]

And they certainly all were innocent, and they all were of European extraction.

FULFORD: The other thing is maybe the Anglo-Saxons and Jews rule the world, but when you get to the higher levels, they are told, "Neither of you rule anything. You are a slave. We rule the world."

RENSE: We'll come back in a minute, Ben, hold on. We'll further define who the enemy is. It's not Jews, it's not Christians, it's something else.

You made a good point in private correspondence to me -- how to throw away the obvious potential criticism about your message being somewhat anti-Semitic in nature, which of course it isn't.

We'll clear that up, and do some other things as we continue our conversation in Part Two, in just a few minutes.

[Break]

RENSE: And we return to our conversation with Benjamin Fulford, live from Tokyo.

All right, Ben, let's really define the enemy as best we can. I know it was interesting, and one of the ways it was phrased to me was if you take all of the so-called anti-Jewish, anti-Zionist, anti-Semitic material, and reduce it all down to anything BUT anti-Jewish material, you'll have a pretty good sketch of who the enemy is.

This is not an issue of Jewish people or Judaism -- it is an issue that goes much beyond that. [This group], as we know, has used Judaism and continues to use dumb Christian Zionists today as well. That's quite a clever and sophisticated group of people. They've been around a long time. So tell us more.

FULFORD: They are the elite -- the [descendants of] ancient Babylonian kings. Their job is always to control the masses. So in a sense, a lot of the Jews never really escaped from Babylonia to this day -- they just don't know it.

I think what happens is [the Jews] get used like a matador's cape. Any time [the controllers] do something that pisses people off and [the people] get angry, [the controllers] flash the Jews as the red cape.

RENSE: They sure do. And they hung them out to dry and sacrificed them in World War II. We know that now through the work of Jewish scholars -- Lenny Brenner, Henry Makow, Ph.D. and a number of others who found the truth out.

If you really want to read the truth, direct from a man who was in the middle of it, read 'Ten Questions to the Zionists' by Rabbi Michael Dov Weissmandl. That's on Rense.com at the left side. Read it from a Jewish man himself -- a rabbi who was there! Check it out.

FULFORD: The Simon Wiesenthal center tried to get one of my books banned here in Tokyo. Rabbi Cooper, from the Wiesenthal Center, came over to the foreign correspondents' club. And I asked him, "Why do you want my book banned?" He said it's because I mentioned that President Bush killed 650,000 people in Iraq, which was based on an emergency medical magazine.

So here we have a so-called polite (ph) people trying to ban a book because it denounces genocide!

RENSE: The hypocrisy is really beyond measure when it comes to these people. They've been at it for a long, long time. They manipulate the media -- in fact they OWN most of the media, so it makes their job very easy.

When you mix into that soup control of the mass entertainment media as well -- motion pictures more specifically -- you can understand how generation after generation are being literally mind-controlled and mind-engineered to the extent that if you say anything in many cases against Israel or Jewish Zionist policy vis-à-vis Israel, you are immediately jumped upon -- not only by Jews but by non-Jews as well -- as being some sort of a bigot. It's quite a feat they've come up with.

FULFORD: Remember, we're only talking in the US about six or seven families. They changed their names and interbred, but they are the descendants of the bankers who took over the Fed in 1913.

I have to go back to that old era to find the data, but in 1918 the ten richest men owned 70 percent of the economy.

So we're talking very few people who are like kings, and control most of your money. You don't see them. They hide behind this elaborate camouflage you think of as your economy.

RENSE: Sure, and they manage Jekyll Island -- they hatched the Fed. They've been at it for a long time. We've all been studying history and understand at least the basics of it.

FULFORD: If the American people took that [money] back, I would say there would be an immediate windfall of a hundred thousand dollars for every man, woman and child in the country.

RENSE: Oh, at least!

Excuse me, let me say one other thing about the so-called Iraq war, which has been nothing less than a genocidal annihilation of a people -- a culture which goes back thousands of years -- and a country. This is one of the biggest outrages, the biggest perversions of human values I've ever seen.

If we were to take the money that Bush and Cheney and those incredibly evil people have spent on the Iraq / Afghanistan wars -- and again I use the word 'wars' advisably -- we would have enough money to pay for universal healthcare for all Americans for about 15 years right now!

And if you don't believe me, just go see the movie "Sicko" and then do the math.

FULFORD: Absolutely. These people have been draining money out of the Americans for years now, along with the Japanese, for some secret project.

For example, they have a monopoly on oil. They get together and say, "We'll take turns." One person says, "Oh, jeez, our refinery is kind of rusty. We'll have to shut it down."

Then the next guy's turn: "Oh, jeez, we've got a hole in our pipeline. We'll have to shut down." And they crank up the prices artificially.

What they're doing is they're draining money out of all the Americans' pockets to finance some secret projects.

RENSE: It's a parasite. They're bleeding the American public and the Japanese public. I remember very well the inconvenient Alaska pipeline leak which popped up, and prices went up. The story now is that the refineries are antiquated, they're at maximum capacity, they haven't been upgraded in years and they're not able to handle the demand.

That's a bunch of crap. All of it. And you're right -- you're 100 percent correct.

FULFORD: In any case, these people are in severe trouble. Most Americans have been brainwashed, but they know something is wrong. They are 80 percent against the Congress and the President.

RENSE: Congress has an approval rating, by the way Ben, of 14 percent.

FULFORD: Yeah. In other words, even though they don't know what is wrong, they know something is very wrong.

So now these people are very, very isolated. They've lost Russia. The whole world is against them. They know people are against them. They are in extraordinarily deep trouble.

I am offering to save their asses if they will retire gracefully. Otherwise they are going to be doomed.

I've already saved Rockefeller's life twice now. When the Chinese approached me first, they were talking about starting off by killing 200 of those people, and then starting to negotiate.

I said "No no no, I'm not a gangster, I'm against killing. No no no. Don't do that. Let's talk to these people first."

So I talked on your show, and a senior member of the Japanese security police told me that because of what you leaked on the Internet, they are going to attack Nigata with their earthquake weapons.

I said, "Oh, come on. I don't believe that." Then, BOOM! BOOM!

Two days in succession, [there were] identical earthquakes -- right under the nuclear power plant!

RENSE: When were you told this, Ben?

FULFORD: Before it happened. After I appeared on your show and I put stuff out on the Internet about the Illuminati.

RENSE: I think your journalist experience tells you that the technology certainly exists to do something like that.

[Bumper music]

Earthquake faults are targets -- they can be made to slip.

[The second quake also happened just hours before the 7/17 "Fire the Grid" meditation, an event millions of people participated in. It may have been planned to occur at the exact moment of the meditation. This would have created a demoralizing effect on those who participated and reinforce Illuminati belief in their being the gods of this world. (Transcriber)]

FULFORD: And I got an email [from the Rockefeller Illuminati] saying, "You got your answer."

So the Chinese said, "Okay. Well, let's move now. Let's do it. They made their move." I said, "No no no."

The [controllers] don't understand how powerful these [Chinese secret society] people are and what they can do -- they underestimate the danger there is. I'm the only thing standing between them and total death -- oblivion for their whole clan!

And I'm not talking about the Jews here -- I'm talking about this secret group of Satanists. They can all be wiped out in a matter of days. And I'm saying, "No no no no, please!"

I cried about the deaths in Nigata. I said, "Oh, jeez, these people died and I'm trying to save these really nasty people's lives."

So I'm going to give them one more chance. I'm going to invite David Rockefeller to meet me at Fulford Place in Brockville, Ontario -- Canada.

RENSE: All right. Stand by right there, Ben, we'll come back in just a minute.

[Break]

RENSE: All right. Welcome back. I encourage all of you to take a listen to this program, as it is already fascinating. We'll have it up for you to listen to for free again. Hopefully we'll get another transcript up for you to study and pay close attention.

Now Ben Fulford has just dropped another foot and said that he is calling for a meeting. Let's back up a little bit, revisit that and lay it out on the table clearly.

FULFORD: Okay. Here's what's happening. I am the only thing standing between them and the most horrible -- something worse than they can imagine. I am their link to survival. They need to understand that very clearly. I am their best friend.

I am offering a meeting [with] David Rockefeller. I will be expecting a friendly answer within 48 hours. Otherwise, I will have to move on to Plan B.

And let me tell you -- beyond Plan B, it is planned all the way up to Plan Z and beyond. There is no stopping it.

RENSE: Okay, let's talk about Plan A. Now where would you like this meeting to occur? You want to hear from them in 48 hours. We don't have to give a contact phone number -- they know exactly where you are. So where do you want the meeting to occur?

FULFORD: At the old Fulford mansion in Brockville, Ontario. It's now a Canadian government museum, but I thought it would be appropriate.

RENSE: [Your grandfather] G.T.'s former home?

FULFORD: Yeah. It's a major tourist attraction now. Anyone up in that part of the world, Brockville, Ontario -- I recommend it as a very interesting place to visit, to see how the robber barons lived at the turn of the century.

RENSE: Pretty appropriate idea. All right.

Now for the record, and from a journalist's position over here, I must say that after your first visit, many people -- I would suggest a huge number of people around the world -- were rather elated by the potential of something on the planet that could stand up to these evil Satanists, Zionists, whatever you want to call them, and stop them.

Some would also suggest that the removal of one, or two of them, or ten of them, or a hundred of them -- these being the most evil people on the planet -- would be a very small price to pay for peace, and an end to the genocide of us regular folks, going back two hundred years.

In the case of Iraq, [it is] now totaling probably over two million people, since Bush 41 was in office and first invaded Iraq in the early 90s.

Now what are the lives of human beings worth? Is a mother in Baghdad's life worth the same as one of the top evil Satanist kingpins on the planet? I would suggest yes. I have always been an equal-opportunity mourner, so to speak.

They, of course, don't view it that way. So just so you know, the response here was, from many people, "Hell yes! I hope the Asians do something to stop what's going on. We can't get our Congress to do it. Our administration is no longer 'our' administration. It is out of control, and we need some help."

That was the response I generally received.

FULFORD: I think the whole world is going to come to help. Everyone has reached the point of no return. These [Rockefeller-led] people are desperate. They are planning something horrendous in August. That's not going to be allowed to take place.

We all know that when Congress recesses, these people are in danger. They are cornered.

The reason why I was against the killing of these people first is because you could start a tit-for-tat. They control enormous destructive potential; the earthquake machine was an example.

I'm hoping to get them to gracefully back down, and we can start running this planet in a more sane manner.

RENSE: We all do. We agree on that a hundred percent, Ben.

For those of you who didn't notice -- I hope you did, I had a lot of stories about it -- the Japanese earthquakes, and there were several of them, took the world's largest nuclear power plant out of commission.

The leaking and damage was far worse than we were told -- a big surprise. A), they took it offline for at least a year -- that's what the experts are saying now. It will take a year, at least, to get it back and functioning. So that [disaster] was a huge thing.

FULFORD: The other amazing thing is that they predicted this in advance. This surprised me. Until then, I was skeptical. But when the Chinese heard about this, they said, "Okay, it's time to make our move."

I said, "Wait. I'm going to give them one last chance."

RENSE: So the Chinese did not like this earthquake idea one bit. They know they are equally as vulnerable to a natural catastrophe of one kind or another.

FULFORD: Well, yeah. Also, a lot of the members of the society are Japanese. It's not just a Chinese society.

RENSE: I understand. You made that clear. When I say a 'natural' [catastrophe], I use that, of course, in quotes.

FULFORD: The thing is, a lot of people who are in these elite groups don't want to be there. They were born there or inducted, and they have a choice to either be there or die.

So they're trapped too. They are as much, in their own way, victims of the system -- although they have been doing incredible evil for centuries now.

They are getting close to [fulfilling] some secret plan. Think about, for example, the three trillion dollars that disappeared -- all this cranking up of oil prices, and forcing both parents to work. Here in Japan, [they are] forcing the people into low-paying jobs.

They are extracting money for some humongous secret project. And I think they weren't planning to do it this soon, but they feel cornered. I am worried that they are going to do something totally horrendous.

RENSE: The money which disappeared from the Pentagon alone is said -- [static noise] and we are going to try to clear up this static on the phone line at the top of the hour -- it's fine to get a little static once in a while -- at least we're able to speak to Ben tonight.

The Fulford revelations are right on the money. He just mentioned three and a half trillion dollars. A lot of this perhaps went over some of the listeners' heads, because you don't know.

When [laughs] a certain gentleman was in charge of the finances of the Pentagon, three and a half TRILLION dollars vanished. Okay?

That certain gentleman happened to have dual citizenship in the United States and Israel. I think you know the story by now.

So three and a half trillion there, a trillion here, a half a billion there... [huge static on Fulford line] ...it continues to go. Are you still there, Ben?

FULFORD: Yeah, I'm still here.

RENSE: That was a big explosion of static. All right. Anyway, the amount of money they have, to do whatever they have to do, is literally limitless.

FULFORD: I'm a believer in Occam's razor. You always choose the simple explanation for something when there's more than one explanation.

So I see all these UFO videos and stuff. I have to think, "All right, first of all, is there an earthly explanation?" If there were aliens, you would expect them to make themselves public.

The Rockefellers are spreading all this alien talk -- they have these secret bases everywhere, and they are in a huge building binge. They've been preparing some sort of nasty death fleet, and other instruments of mass killing. They've been forced into a corner.

I want to make them gently put down those dangerous toys, and just back off a bit, in exchange for amnesty and protection.

Right now, they think they are in a powerful position. They have all of this hard power, but they don't realize that they have no soft power. They don't have public support anywhere in the world. The entire planet has turned against them.

So, they've got 700,000 people staring at each one of them. And now that the jig is up, and people know what's going on. They are in a hopeless situation. So I am their best choice. They'd better realize that.

As far as I am concerned, Plan B doesn't make much difference. But as far as they're concerned, they would be much better off with Plan A, which is to talk with me.

They have been given a phone number in Taiwan, and they have been given information to know that there really is a six-million-man secret army. There really are a hundred thousand professional assassins, and there really are 1.8 million gangsters.

[The Chinese secret society] has been studying, by the way, the Freemasons for 150 years. They have been preparing for this for 150 years!

RENSE: You mean the Chinese and Asians have been.

FULFORD: Yes. They set up their own anti-Freemason network 150 years ago. They are ready for this.

The Freemasons didn't even know these people existed.

RENSE: You have a paper on my site: The History of Freemasons in Japan. Very interesting.

FULFORD: I have a bit of an update on that one too. Apparently I met a senior star, considered the biggest expert in this field. There was a period between 1936 and 1945, when the Japanese were not under control of the Freemasons. During that time a lot of research was published on them.

Apparently, what happened was the British came and totally demolished two clans in southern Japan after Admiral Perry came to Japan. They forced them to work for the Rothschilds. They killed the emperor and installed a 16-year-old boy in his place, and that was the Meiji emperor.

So Japan was a secret colony of the Freemasons, and it still is -- although now the Japanese Freemasons are ready to change the status quo.

It's the best timing, because Russia is against them, China is against them, India is against them, the Muslim world is against them, South America is against them -- everybody is against them!

They are basically doomed. This is what they have to realize.

RENSE: The Rothschilds did control Japan. They lost it. The Rockefellers, of course, at the end of World War II, emerged victorious and claimed Japan as their own primal territory.

By the way, for those of you -- we're going to break here in just a moment -- who don't know about these three and a half trillion dollars stolen from the Pentagon under the auspices of Zakheim, look up on Google, Rabbi Dov Zakheim, or just Rabbi Zakheim, and type in "Pentagon trillions" with it -- and you will come up with over 10,400 hits. You can read about it right there.

So he's a happy guy, wherever he is right now. By the way, his company was involved with remote control operating systems -- computer systems for jetliners, in case any of you might be able to connect the dots on that one as well. Or the suggestive dots, at least.

So yes, Dov Zakheim was a man on the spot, and probably has received the highest awards that Israel can award upon its dual citizens for the shenanigans that went on there. Three and a half TRILLION dollars that went unaccounted for! Whoops! Where did it go?

Investigations were underway when September 11th occurred. It is said that in the Pentagon, a team of accountants, working on that very thing, just happened to be in the way of whatever it was that hit the Pentagon that morning -- and it killed them all!

[Bumper music]

So put that in your computer and run it as well.

Okay, back in a few minutes with Ben Fulford. We're going to take some calls in a little bit. I will give the number out now, but if you do call, expect to be on hold for a while -- but at least you'll get on the phone boards here.

It's 800-259-9231. 1-800-259-9231.

A little later in this next hour we will begin to take calls. My guest is Benjamin Fulford. I am Jeff Rense. Glad you are along.

Don't forget to visit our website at Rense.com. Bookmark it, check it out. I guarantee you will find no finer diversity of news, from around the world, anywhere on the Internet.

We'll be back.

[Break -- Hour 2]

RENSE: Okay, welcome back. Hour number two coming up, our Part Two exclusive conversation with Benjamin Fulford, live from Japan. It's quite a story.

All right, Ben. Where do you want to go next with this? You've invited David Rockefeller to meet with you at the Fulford mansion, the Fulford estate in Canada. You're giving them 48 hours to get back to you. They know how to get in touch with you, no problem.

Who will be attending the meeting, beside yourself, on your side of the ledger? Anybody?

FULFORD: Well, that's open. We might bring one representative from the Chinese secret society. Basically I am a member, and I am a senior member. I can speak for them in the West. I am not just a smokescreen. I'm actually a participant and a leader. I can speak authoritatively.

RENSE: I had an email, Ben. They asked, "Why would you intercede to stop the elimination of something so evil on the planet as one of these satanic secret society people who have been engineering the murders of tens, if not hundreds of millions of people over the centuries?"

Why would you stop? What's the issue? Is it a moral issue? What is it?

FULFORD: Part of it is a moral issue. The more important point is that if you start by hitting them, and then they hit back, who knows what damage they could do? You know what I mean?

RENSE: Well...

FULFORD: You're talking about gang wars involving serious death. So it's better if we can get a peaceful solution first. That's always our policy. Fighting is a last resort.

It's not about just a few evil people, because just killing them isn't going to do it. There's going to be some sort of horrendous retaliation.

RENSE: Well, there's a whole mechanism in place -- and if I might suggest something, as I have said for many years -- I certainly don't have the connections you do in the Asian theater -- I don't believe these people will give up their control, under almost any circumstance. I believe they will take the whole planet down with them rather than yield the floor to something else.

FULFORD: Here's the point I'm making. I have given them a lot of hints. They have these cool mind machines locked away in the basement of the NSA. They've got their supercomputers.

If they are even half as smart as I think they are, they will have located a singularity on the event horizon. They will have located something that could be called God in their supercomputers.

What is happening is we are approaching a situation that is so radical that all our human concepts are going to be meaningless.

Let me explain this a bit more. I have a girlfriend -- an ex-girlfriend who married an American billionaire. They're going to have children soon. She is telling me they are able to select, already, eye color, hair color, genes for intelligence. They're already engineering super-kids.

It's a matter of time -- and not very much time, maybe 20 years at the most -- before they will be able to make people immortal. Then there are going to be people who want to start doing things like adding whale-brain genes, eagle eyes and bat ears.

RENSE: Well, they're probably already doing that in their black-ops labs around the world, and have been for a long time -- playing gene games like that.

FULFORD: So we're going to end up with a whole new range of super-beings. They're going to have all this incredible power at their disposal.

This cannot be left in the hands of [the elite]. If these people continue with their plans, they're going to blow the future of the human race and this planet.

So I'm saying...

RENSE: Excuse me, Ben. Excuse me. What you're saying is they will create a race of super-beings who will be elite and who will totally dominate the planet. They probably will go about genetically reducing the common denominator of many of the masses to an even dumber and even more dumbed-down level. Is that what you are suggesting?

FULFORD: What I'm suggesting is that's their plan. In fact, the opposite can be true. Everybody can be made immortal, and super -- in which case we could be, as a species, exploding into something totally new.

I think about the planet Earth a bit like a frog's egg. Imagine a frog's egg in a pond, and a tadpole is starting to develop. The eye is getting formed. You can see inside the egg. You say, "Hmm." You see these other eggs. You wonder if there's tadpoles in those eggs too.

But there's a worry. They're running out of yolks. So some people say, maybe just to deal with the yolk shortage we should eat the tail.

And that's what these people are doing to the planet. That's what they're thinking. But in fact, this thing is about to be a tadpole, swimming out there. It's better to prepare, to know what you're doing, because otherwise you're going to get eaten by the first pike that comes along.

As a species, we are reaching some sort of breakthrough point of enormous proportions. I liken this to the Cambrian explosion.

This is not based on something like "I smoked on a beach", or something. It's based on hard science: that immortality, infinite energy and then instant communications with large amounts of human brains is going to create something we've never seen before.

So for these people to take this potential Cambrian explosion, and ruin it by slaughtering humanity and enslaving people -- it's just not going to work.

There's a tsunami coming and they cannot stop it.

So I'm like a monkey. I show up at a mountain and there's a boss monkey. He says, "Hey, what are you doing here? We'll kill you if you keep talking about us."

I say, "Look, I've got all these buddies behind me. If it came to a fight, I could probably whoop your ass."

But it's not about fighting. Look at the event horizon. Things are getting much bigger than you expected.

They don't believe in God? There is proof, in their supercomputers now, of the real God -- on this planet, based on our science, with no need to invoke anything supernatural. It's right there, according to our laws of nature, discovered by science.

They can see it coming. If they can't, then they're a lot dumber than I thought -- and I worry for them.

RENSE: How do you think they define God? If you are correct, and they have determined that there is a God or a universal consciousness, how do you think they define it? As an enemy, as something to be ignored, as an adversary? They are satanic. How do you think they do it?

FULFORD: What happened, I believe, years ago is they had a god-king who had all this power. And then he didn't want to die. So he tried to preserve his knowledge through generation after generation of heavy family tradition. The idea he had was to really become God.

So they want to become God. They want to move all human minds into one single mind, put them all in, and then create God out of nothing. Their belief was that they've done all this killing and stuff, and God hasn't shown up, so they can do whatever the hell they want!

The only thing that would stop them would be the actual appearance of a real God -- and I'm saying that has happened!

These people better take a look at the event horizon. If they are half as smart as I think they are, they will see something that they do not comprehend -- and it is bigger than their ability to really, truly grasp.

I'm trying to say, "Look, you know, the tsunami is coming. You'd better do something. There is no time for us fighting."

Their whole thinking is just so backwards.

And the other thing is they're scared. They're very scared, because they see their end is coming. They don't know what to do about it. The rise of China, the rise of India, all these people out of their control. They don't like the idea of losing control. They are scared.

And they are racist. They don't like the idea of other races controlling the planet. They think they are the chosen, special super-elite, and it is their destiny to rule the whole world as a giant farm. And that's not going to happen. It's already too late. There is nothing they can do about it.

They can try to initiate World War III in Iran, or whatever. They need fear. They need war. That's the only thing they have working for them. Right now we're headed into an era where we don't need war -- we need peace.

The whole planet wants peace. And the only reason we have war is because of them. So the whole planet is about to say, "Okay, enough already. It's finished."

Theoretically, all these people have to do is say, "Okay, stop." And it's going to happen. There's no way these people are going to succeed.

They may have somehow brainwashed the American people and fooled them. But they know. The American people are angry. They don't know what they're angry at, but they know there is something wrong.

I would suggest to the American people that the best way to fight these people is not through armed militias and stuff. That plays right into their hands. They are violence specialists. A strike, a general strike, passive resistance -- learn from Gandhi.

You can beat them just by disobeying them. That's all you have to do. Then they're powerless.

But if you fight them, you play into their hands and give them an excuse to whoop your ass. It would be like a peasant rebellion with pitchforks against mercenaries armed with steel.

RENSE: They'd love to take Blackwater and other hired mercenaries, and what's left of the American military, which is certainly appalling a lot of people from around the world -- and turn them loose on the American public. You are quite right.

FULFORD: I didn't want the Chinese to attack, because I didn't want to give these people an excuse to crack down and have their martial law.

RENSE: Two of the top Chinese military generals, in the last three years, have said quite clearly, and I quote again, that "the Chinese military is planning to fight, and to win, a thermonuclear war with the United States."

They are not playing games. They are doing their underground homework. They are building facilities. So are the Russians. Of course we have nothing in the United States here at all to take care of the populace.

Meanwhile, the evil elite are building their underground hideaways, expecting that if they do trigger World War III, they'll be able to climb out in six months and set up the game all over again.

[Bumper music]

That's of course how they think. Hold on, I'll be right back with Benjamin Fulford, when we come back, live from Tokyo. This is Part Two of our exclusive conversation for you tonight, and we shall continue right after this.

[Break]

RENSE: Okay, let's get right back to Benjamin Fulford.

Okay, Ben, we've got the satanic elite preparing to survive Armageddon, or whatever they want to call it. They have millions of Christian Fundamentalist Zionist kooks that are pushing for it, who want it to happen.

They think they're going to crawl out of the shadows after the nuclear residue has diminished enough, and set up the game all over again.

As you said, if it is true that they hit Japan with a couple of earthquakes right at that particular location, as a response to your earlier visit on the program, then there is no end of what they could do to China.

Now this goes back again to what I was mentioning before the break. Two senior, and I mean at the top, Chinese military men -- officers, generals -- said they are preparing to fight, and win, a thermonuclear war with America.

Chinese agents, of course, and business interests have spread all over the world. They are penetrating South America as we speak. Africa [as well.] They are working all over the planet to secure more hegemony, power, control and manipulation.

There are over five thousand companies working around the world -- corporations which are actually owned by the People's Liberation Army. They own both ends of the Panama Canal, the world's deepest ocean port in the Bahamas.

They are trying to gain footholds with American ports. They are setting up ports in Mexico, in anticipation of the North American Union, so they can ship in their containers.

It was kind of funny. There was a 60 Minutes news story about how lax port security is. They were looking at these containers coming in, and there was no effort at all made by the journalists to point out the fact that US customs only actually looks at one or two of every 100 containers that come into the United States.

The story was about some radioactive detection machine which only works 50 percent of the time.

So they're obviously looking in the wrong places again. There is no security in this country.

Is China preparing to fight a thermonuclear war, Ben Fulford? And beyond that, what about Taiwan? Go ahead.

FULFORD: The Chinese have never had a tradition of conquering other people. You go back thousands of years -- they concluded years ago that they are the biggest country, so people could come to them.

I don't think they have any sinister goals. I really don't. I used to think that, but I honestly believe they want to make the people of Africa rich so they can become good customers -- and everybody benefits.

I don't see them having any sinister plans.

RENSE: Well, they don't need to have any. Excuse me, but vis-à-vis Sub-Saharan Africa, HIV-AIDS and now XDR-TB is going to take most of the population out of the equation.

But OK, go ahead.

FULFORD: They're offering to eliminate malaria from Africa, for example.

RENSE: Well, they should try and offer to eliminate AIDS, which is manmade, and XDR-TB, which appears to be manmade -- or potentially so.

FULFORD: These efforts to kill the population by the elite are just not going to work. They are going against nature.

What's really happening is the flow of nature is moving in a positive direction overall.

The societies in Asia realized that war is not the way to move forward.

For example, the Japanese, in the 1600s, had more cannons than all of Europe combined. At some point they said, "Why do we have all these guns aimed at each other?" And they said, "No, let's not do that." They had 250 years of peace until Admiral Perry showed up.

The Ming dynasty was like that too: "Why is there all this war? Let's just enjoy the land and be prosperous."

I don't think these people have any hostile intent. However, when you have the American elite, the Western elite, with a long-term plan to reduce China's population to less than half, and then to use a war with Taiwan as a pretext to invade and divide it into six countries, [you can see that] they are scared.

[The Chinese] don't want this to happen. They are saying, "If you do that, we will crush you. We are not going to let you get away with this."

It's too many. It cannot happen. What the Western elite are doing is they are destroying the West. They're going to make the West a backwards [society], and China is going to be the [new] center of civilization if they keep repressing technology, brainwashing people and trying to keep them all addicted to oil.

That's going to destroy the West. They are destroying their own backyard. It is so insanely stupid.

RENSE: People have asked that for years. I raised that question. It's almost the unanswerable questions -- why are they killing the goose that is laying the golden eggs for them? Why are they destroying the planet's environment, its biosphere, its ecosystem.

Why are they doing that? Are they that arrogant? Are they that stupid? Are they drunk with power? Are they drunk with lust? What is it?

FULFORD: They're basically gangsters. And they're not capable of running the planet.

RENSE: Well, we know that much.

FULFORD: They're in way over their head.

And one other point. You have one man, David Rockefeller, acting as if he were God. And this planet is too big for one mind to control. We learned that with Hitler, Stalin and Mao.

RENSE: Are you suggesting that David Rockefeller is a bigger big-shot than the Rothschilds in London? Or are they just on opposite sides of the planet, and pretty much equals?

FULFORD: Well, my understanding is David Rockefeller has always been the big kahuna since World War II. However, I do believe there is a split with the Rothschilds now.

I don't know all the details, but there has certainly been a schism. All that stuff with the Freedom Fries. Just look at who invaded Iraq and who didn't.

[Bumper music]

You'll see that France and Germany didn't. So there's a split in their ranks. The Rockefellers are on the way out, and that will be good for everybody. I think the Rothschilds are a much higher-level people.

RENSE: That's a good point, and certainly the British presence in Iraq was marginal in the south of the country. Some would suggest there was a deal made to keep their combat losses as low as they were.

Okay, back in just a minute with Benjamin Fulford. We will begin to take questions shortly, so if you'd like to call in, there are calls waiting now. The number here is 800-259-9231.

Again, we are well aware that many of the stations carrying this program do so at different times, so hopefully you are on the Internet, at least, listening in, and can call in.

Okay, we'll pause and then continue.

[Break]

RENSE: And we continue with Benjamin Fulford, live from Tokyo.

All right, let's take a call or two for now, and give you the number again. It's 800-259-9231. All right, Dan in New York, thanks for being patient. You're the first up tonight. Thanks for being patient. What's your question for Ben?

DAN: Uh, hello Jeff. Hello Ben. Thanks for taking my call.

FULFORD: You're welcome.

D: Well, we know Mao killed an estimated 60 to 70 million people. The current Chinese government appears to be the model for the New World Order with their one-child policy and the non-existence of civil rights over there.

My question is why should we believe, then, that a Chinese secret society is going to save us when they've allowed such atrocities [to occur] in the past?

FULFORD: Okay. You've got to remember the people I'm working with are enemies, or have been long-term enemies of the actual government in China.

It's not the same. This is an anti-establishment group that has very different values from the people who actually run the Chinese government. So you've got to make that difference, OK?

DAN: OK.

FULFORD: These are anti-Government people. And their values are very good -- to protect the weak, fight against injustice. They are not would-be dictators. That's the important point. And they are concerned that innocent, weak people are being killed. That is something that makes them angry.

RENSE: I might just real quickly interject here that in Ben's first visit, Dan, you can hear quite a history lesson about China. In fact, he made this point very clear.

So go ahead and listen to that again. It's free up online. But that's a very good question, and I would ask Ben just to interject a question here as well.

The Falun Gong movement has represented a very great threat to the Chinese Communist dictators, and they have cracked down on them very hard. Do your friends have any formal position or informal position about Falun Gong and so forth?

FULFORD: I haven't heard any talk about the Falun Gong. Their policy would be to just let them be if they are not doing anything wrong.

RENSE: Okay, very good. That's good enough. All right, Dan, go ahead.

DAN: That was my main question. I also just wanted to throw it out there that we put David Rockefeller on such a high pedestal, but here in New York City, our group We Are Change actually confronted David Rockefeller about being indicted by a citizens' grand jury for the crimes of 9/11.

So it was just interesting to show people that these people are reachable; these people are confrontable. That's what we try to do here.

RENSE: That's your group, Dan?

D: Yeah.

RENSE: Well, very good. Congratulations. Good job.

D: Thank you.

FULFORD: One thing I will also add about the difference between the Chinese politburo and the US secret government [is this]. [With] the Chinese politburo, at least you can see them. You know they're there, and you know they're dictators.

In the US, they stay hidden and they keep everyone fooled with this show that you think of as a democracy -- which has been privatized entirely.

RENSE: That's a good point.

FULFORD: So at least these guys aren't lying about what's going on. They're not trying to fool people. They are there on TV every day, and you can know they're in front.

The other thing is they're trying to use real-time public opinion on the Internet and create a new form of democracy. I don't think they want to be a real total dictatorship, because they know they will be doomed if they don't listen to the people.

So that's my take on it. I don't think they're as bad as their predecessors in earlier generations.

RENSE: Okay.

FULFORD: Although they leave a lot to be desired, for sure. But it's always easier to talk about problems over there, while in your own society it is squashed and hidden -- you can't talk about it.

The Chinese can talk about things and see things about the United States that the Americans aren't allowed to know or talk about, and vice versa.

So a lot of the stuff they talk about, vis-à-vis China, could be said vis-à-vis the US.

One example is [from] World War Two. The Japanese army had this guy named Kurama Yoshiyo. He created these gangs of bandits who attack villages, rape and kill.

Then, after he attacked, the Japanese army would show up and say, "Hey, we can protect you from those bandits, so why don't you come under our protection?"

That's what the US is doing in Afghanistan and Iraq. Al-Quaeda, as far as I am concerned, is a Rockefeller [creation]. The US government sponsored bandits and terrorists who then give them the excuse to send in their military.

RENSE: It's wearing a little thin too, that scam. It's quite a joke. Al-Quaeda is nothing less than a CIA prop, put up by the CIA people as a diversion.

Ok. Dan, thank you and keep up the good work. Thank you very much for calling.

DAN: Thank you, Jeff. Take care. Good night, Benjamin.

RENSE: Okay. In Arizona, someone called Pravda is on the line. We know that, of course, means 'Truth' in Russian. Are you there?

PRAVDA: Yes, hi, Jeff. Hello, Benjamin.

I know that you mentioned a Plan B. How long will they wait before striking the elite, if Rockefeller decides to ignore you and doesn't want to meet with you? How long before they will strike?

Then I have one other question if you don't mind.

RENSE: OK. Not a problem. Go ahead. So how long, Ben?

FULFORD: OK. There's a couple things I have to mention. One is that I've got a Plan B, which was my idea. I'll try that first. But if it comes to something actually violent, they are the professionals. They've been doing this for 500 years. I won't know what they are going to do.

They did tell me to say that it would be unpredictable, and it would be far worse than expected.

So I wouldn't call that Plan B. I'm trying to minimize death here. There is a real explanation. Ultimately they are outnumbered 600 to 1. The 600 know who the 1 is, and the 1 does not know who the 600 are.

So incidentally, they should know, if they are at least half smart, that we've got 'em. Their destiny is in their hands.

I wish they would just wake up to the fact that I am trying to save their lives. I am the moderate. I am the peaceful guy. I want this to be done without bloodshed. But when it comes to violence...

PRAVDA: That's a very good definite goal we all would like to see. The other thing is are we the human shields in a war between them and possibly the real God? Are these elite and the Rockefellers even human, one would even wonder? You know what I mean?

FULFORD: Well, they think of themselves as being super-human -- that they can travel into other dimensions. To me this indicates they have vivid imaginations.

[Bumper music]

Honestly, the Chinese know the difference between the gangsters who are oppressing the American people and the American people. They're not going to go after innocent Americans. There's no point. There's a pyramid and there's all these slaves building the pyramid, and there's an eye on top. You target the eye, don't worry about the pyramid.

But I don't know what they're going to do. They are in charge of tactics. It's 1.8 million professional gangsters and 100,000 professional assassins. That's something to think about. That's real. And they should have been able to confirm it by now.

RENSE: All right. Hold on, we'll be right back in just a couple minutes as we continue the conversation Part Two with Benjamin Fulford.

[Break]

RENSE: Ben is a professional journalist. I'm sure you probably have an interest in the explosion of nanotechnology, genetic engineering and manipulation. We talked briefly about that before. I've been following it from the beginning, and realizing as many of you listening out there do - that it not only represents the keys to the kingdom, but it could open Pandora's Box, and probably will, before it opens the door to salvation for humankind.

Unfortunately everything is perceived in terms of military defense, which is really offense, control and subjugation. Then it trickles down to the consuming public and the medical companies, which of course will get filthy rich on whatever they do decide to come up with.

But in the hands of evil, in the hands of the satanic societies on the planet -- these evil Zionist Satanists, whatever you want to label them, it doesn't matter -- the controllers. And you point out that in 20 years everything is going to be different.

I would point out that if we make it to 20 years, in the largely intact condition we are in now, we may look back in 20 years and say, "Well, gee, it only took 10."

I think they're way ahead of us. I think these changes could, in fact, be being implemented right now. I have evidence to suggest that it IS being implemented right now, in fact. So I think your points are very important, and we might want to talk just a little more about that.

FULFORD: What's happening is if the human race were able to be in charge of itself, instead of being controlled in secret by these gangsters, the first thing is everybody would say, "Well, I don't want to die. Maybe there's a heaven, but if I could have eternal life on this Earth, maybe I would choose to live longer if I could be healthy?"

So instead of investing all these hundreds of billions of dollars in new ways to kill people, they would have a crash program to find out how to stop mortality. Then, of course, people would want to end poverty. They would want to end ignorance. They would want to end environmental destruction.

I believe all of this can be accomplished in three or four years. All the human race would have to do is redirect its energy in a way that the people want -- not in the way that some self-appointed shepherds want.

So yes. The potential is so big that it is mind-boggling. Only it would be literally the end of time; the beginning of time.

Imagine if you could have immortality -- if you could become super-smart, super strong. You could have your own private airplane. This is all available if these paranoid warmongers were not in charge.

RENSE: Well, these paranoid war-mongers want people to get sick and die. That's what's going on now. They want them to suffer and die, and they want to get rich in the process. Otherwise we would have full access to all sorts of alternative health commodities, herbal supplements, which are now under attack in this country.

I don't know what it's like there, but as you know it's big-time war on alternative health in America. Go ahead.

FULFORD: Yes. They are trying to make people stupid. They ban all sorts of things, like all these cannabinoids, for example.

RENSE: One of the greatest plants on the surface of the Earth is the cannabis plant. Hemp! [Laughs]

FULFORD: That's an interesting story. Years ago I talked to people who picked magic mushrooms in Canada. And they said the cows would guard the mushrooms.

RENSE: Wow.

FULFORD: What happened was the mushrooms needed to get inside the cow poop. So they'd give the cows ephedra. They would offer them brain candy. There was a co-evolution between the mushroom and the cow. They needed each other.

The same thing is happening with the hemp plant and the human being. There are 20,000-year-old hemp plants in archeological digs in Japan. So people have been selecting stuff that makes them feel better, smarter and more successful, for that many years.

And that's why they have to ban the plant. People are hard to control and herd like sheep when they use that.

RENSE: That [control is] something they install. Fluoride, aspartame, mass mind manipulation and control through the television, and all the rest of it. Exactly. Go ahead.

FULFORD: In any case, if these people stand aside, then it's going to really be like the Golden Age. Everyone will be rich. Everyone will be happy. It will be just amazing.

RENSE: When you say rich, your meaning is that people will have what they need. That's riches for many people.

FULFORD: There won't be people who are suffering because their land has been taken by someone they can't see.

RENSE: There you go.

FULFORD: Everyone will have enough.

Like I say, right away it would be possible to do 100,000 dollars for each man and woman in the United States.

The other thing is if you had real live, real-time democracy with the people in charge of making the money, through some communication on the Internet -- it would be like humanity's collective IQ just got a hundred times higher. It would be amazing.

The whole system they have is not working. It has ceased to function. These are people who spend all their years making their money on war. They need war.

The world does not need war. The era of war is over.

RENSE: That's their game. It's the only game they know. They know it very well.

FULFORD: You've got to find them something new to do. All these generals in the Pentagon, as soon as they retire, they say where the bad things are. But when they are there, that's where they're getting their salary [from].

So these people have to have something else to do. You've got to protect the Pentagon. You've got to give them a new mission. And I would argue that new mission is to save the planet and explore the Universe instead of figuring out ways to kill Iraqis and steal oil.

They should do it. They can modernize Africa in five years. There are so many things they could do.

So they don't have to worry about losing their lucrative racket. They can do it and be good for the planet at the same time. That's what I'm trying to tell these people -- there is no need to be scared of peace!

RENSE: There's a good line to take another call on. There is no reason to be scared of peace.

Now here's somebody. John is in Canada. Are you there, John?

JOHN: I'm here. Hey Jeff. Hey Ben.

FULFORD: Hi there.

JOHN: Two questions. The first one is, when it comes to the depopulation thing, one thing I've noticed with all the research I've done -- that idea, as far as I know, isn't just a Rockefeller thing. It's many families that seem to have that same idea.

Number one, I wanted to get your comments on that. The second thing is the recent import issues that we've been having in North America, if there is any link...

RENSE: Okay, that is the tainted Chinese food and commodities issue. All right, first up, Ben, I already know the answer.

Certainly Ben does not think the Rockefellers are the only evil on the planet. He just concentrates on them because he is an ex-Canadian, and that's the nearest issue in terms of dealing with the Chinese secret society, because the Rockefellers are the ones who are probing and pushing from Japan.

FULFORD: The Rockefellers really are the top of the pyramid. They are the eye. Below them are lots of people who want to be the eye. Right now they are the eye. So you have to concentrate on them, because that could change everything.

As far as the depopulation is concerned, these people do not know how to deal with other cultures. They think there is a problem of third-world farmers burning down forests so they can feed their families while destroying all the nature on the planet.

So they think "We've got to purge these people." But that's not the answer. The answer is to make these people prosperous, so they don't have to slash down forests.

In other words, poverty is the real environmental problem.

So these people think all these poor people are the environmental problem, so they are getting rid of the poor people. But that's not the answer. The answer is you make them rich and they won't be an environmental problem. So they've got it all ass-backwards.

And they just don't know what they are doing. They are run at the very top by some incompetents.

There are so many options. It would be so easy to stop all these problems.

So yeah. They think the only solution is to purge the world of these devouring human ants. And they are dead wrong. But all sorts of people have been saying this.

They also think that it is the 'inferior races' that should go. And of course that is nonsense. That is pure nonsense.

The distances are cultural, not racial. That is something that is directly, scientifically provable now.

RENSE: That point about them wanting the 'inferior races; to go is adequately and certainly very clearly pointed out when one studies the origins of HIV, AIDS and what it has done to sub-Saharan Africa and what it is doing down there. 75 percent of the people of reproductive age in many of the countries in sub-Saharan Africa have AIDS; they are going to die.

And when they contract this new form of tuberculosis, called XDR-TBSA1, they are literally dead within eight to fourteen days. So apparently AIDS isn't working fast enough.

We know the AIDS medicines are largely a joke and a scam as well. So yeah. The disrespect of the so-called "inferior peoples" of the planet is quite blatant, when you look at the Satanists and the evil elite. No doubt about it.

We just have about a minute before the break. We will come back and ask you the second part of John's question, but go ahead, Ben.

FULFORD: I have seen a family my parents have known for years. They started out as peasants in Mexico. Then they lived in a slum. Now they're all doctors and dentists -- in two or three generations!

That can be done with anybody on earth. Anybody on the planet can be turned into a doctor, or a dentist, or whatever. It's a matter of providing them the tools they need.

RENSE: It's also discipline, drive. It's a cultural thing as well. I know that when the Vietnamese were being expelled or escaping from Vietnam, they came over here by the hundreds of thousands.

95 percent of them were completely off all forms of assistance and welfare within 12 months. Many of them went on to become highly paid and respected professionals, as you point out. They were Asian in origin. They had a different discipline.

In fact, the University of California had to limit the number of Asian students [who were] accepted, because they were actually taking over the dominant role in the percentages of students on campus. They are that competent. They have parties where they study together! [Laughs] That's what they do.

So it's a matter of discipline, cultural ethics and values.

[Bumper music]

Okay, very good. Stand by, Ben, and John in Canada. We'll come back and find out what Ben has to say about the flood, and this is what we know about so far, of tainted Chinese human food, pet food, kids' toys, clothing, even flip-flops or rubber sandals.

I hope you've seen the story on Rense.com about that. Someone went into a Wal-Mart to buy herself some rubber thongs for her feet. Take a look and see what happened to her. It's unreal.

Be right back in just a few minutes.

[Break]

RENSE: Okay. And we're back. Our second exclusive conversation with journalist Benjamin Fulford from Japan tonight. It will be in the archives, of course. I'm also going to make it available free for everyone to listen to at Rense.com. We will have it up as soon after the program as we can.

So what about this deluge -- and this is what we know about so far, Ben -- of tainted Chinese products? Now we're talking about pet food, human food, kids' toys, even sandals, as I said. Lots of things, and the Chinese are not happy about it.

FULFORD: I talked to a Chinese government official about this -- about the pet food. He said it was inspected when it left China. They always inspect stuff they export to the US.

RENSE: Well, they check it for protein content, but the melamine apparently has an ability to jack up the protein readings. So maybe they did inspect it, but that's as far as they went.

FULFORD: Anyway, their version -- I don't know if they're right -- is that something happened in Panama. Something was put into it in Panama.

RENSE: It could have been cut, like they do with...

FULFORD: They say sabotage. They think there was someone out there to smear the Chinese by sabotaging their product.

RENSE: Or make a buck by simply stepping on it, as they say, and cutting it with something else. That's possible.

FULFORD: I think there may be something to that. At the same time, China has a long history of making rip-off copies. They've been doing that since the times of the emperors, when people would make official ceramics.

RENSE: They were making fake Jordache jeans and Levi's back then, were they? I see.

FULFORD: Sure!

RENSE: [Laughs]

FULFORD: So there is a problem with uncontrolled, Wild West capitalism in China. And they are aware of it. They would execute people for letting this stuff happen.

So they are cracking down. They do have problems. I do believe they also can make the case that there is some deliberate sabotage going on.

Some of the stuff looks suspicious. It wasn't the Chinese but somebody out to smear the Chinese.

I have heard of a plan to create a financial crisis in China. The Chinese are aware of it and they are not going to let it happen.

RENSE: Are they backing themselves with their dollar holdings and American assets against such a crisis -- a contrived manipulation to try to take them down economically?

FULFORD: What happened with the dollar holdings is that last year they called Paulsen from the Treasury Department, and Bernanke from the Fed, over to China. "We don't want to talk with your puppets. We want to talk with your real government."

And [the Chinese] said to them, "Those dollars you're giving us are worse than opium. Opium at least gave us pleasure." They forced them to buy opium in the opium wars.

They are saying, "We try to buy companies and you can't buy companies. The only thing you will let us do is finance your military. Well, we're not going to do that anymore. Instead, we're going to take this money and we're going to make the poor people of the world better off. We're going to sell our dollars."

The Americans apparently left the meeting blue in the face and [with] tears in their eyes. Then OPEC called up and told the Chinese that if you don't keep those dollars, we're not going to sell you oil.

So there was some big fight between the secret US government and the Chinese late last year. And the Chinese have been moving heavily into Africa. They're trying to develop all the world. They're making all the poor people rich.

But, they have to keep some of those dollars. However, it's only a matter of time. I think the era of oil is coming to an end. And that's why they're jacking up the prices. They're trying to squeeze as much as they can out before the door shuts, and the whole oil thing comes to an end.

The 20th century will be known as the hellish century of that black poison known as oil. It will be an electric age coming up. It will be much nicer, cleaner, everything better.

RENSE: If Tesla had been allowed to do what he wanted to do, with your great grandfather, we'd be there now.

FULFORD: The Chinese have started. They're working on it. And the Japanese have the technology that is being suppressed by the Americans. I've had senior Japanese government officials tell me [about] all this technology they have that's being suppressed.

RENSE: There's a lot.

FULFORD: The [Rockefeller Illuminati] said, "We'll bomb you and we'll kill you if you start providing people with free energy." So that's where these people are coming from. It's ridiculous. It's no way to run a planet.

RENSE: No arguments here. All right. Let's go to Idaho, and say hi to Paul.

Hello Paul, welcome... You there, Paul?

PAUL: Yes. Mr. Rense!

RENSE: Yes, sir.

PAUL: You're the best. I've been listening to you for many years.

RENSE: Well, thank you sir. Very much. I appreciate that. I try! I tell you that.

PAUL: Well, there are not enough out there trying. That's the problem! [Laughs]

I have a comment to make to Mr. Fulford.

RENSE: Yes.

PAUL: Okay. I think that if you don't get on the Rothschilds -- they own all the banks in Europe and probably most of the Federal Reserve. They are connected with the Royals in England, and the Netherlands and so on.

The British control the Freemasons, especially above the 33rd degree. There's the Warburgs, the Morgans, Kissingers and the whole bunch. But the Rothschilds seem to hold most of the money in the world.

They control the gold. The gold market opens with the Rothschilds in London setting the price. And that's something that's done a little broader, and I think it's the real [problem.]

The only other thing I want to say is I've heard so many nice things said about China, but they haven't been so nice to their workers. I don't know if they admitted to huge numbers of demonstrations where they sent in troops to shoot them down.

RENSE: I would suggest, Paul, that Benjamin is not here to defend the Communist Chinese regime, its oppression of humans and its terrible human rights record. We have one that's just about as bad. We're talking about a Chinese secret society here, which is antithetical to that.

FULFORD: About the Rothschilds. I'm aware they're in control of Europe. I'm aware they have huge control. They are planning to expand the EU. They want a world government based in the EU, with them in secret control.

PAUL: They're in control of the United Nations pretty much, too. And they have been very much pro-eugenics.

RENSE: ...Which was an American creation, by the way. We exported it to Germany. You sound very well informed, Paul.

FULFORD: I'm also involved with the Japanese Freemasons. They have told me they don't want to cut their relations with the Rothschilds. They are more interested in doing the Rockefellers.

So if I can combine the Japanese with the Chinese, and then get all the Russians, I think that we can start with the Rockefellers -- get them to stop their crazy warmongering. Then I believe the Rothschilds can be negotiated with to a regime change that will allow them not to operate in secret, but in the open. Something like that.

In any case, my understanding is we have to start with the people who want to carry out this radical genocide. That's the highest priority. So we'll deal with the Rothschilds later. That's where I'm coming from.

I also have the wishes of the Japanese Freemasons as well as the Chinese secret society to deal with, which is why I take that attitude.

Also I think despite the eugenics, and all that nasty racist stuff, the Rothschilds are a slightly more intelligent and sophisticated bunch. And I believe they can be talked with. So we'll see. Things will change.

PAUL: I think that they'll pull the wool over your eyes and say yes. One of the big things they're doing now is pushing 'Gaia' as a new world religion.

Basically what they do is take control of all the natural resources under the auspices of protecting society. But in the meantime, a few big corporations, they control the water, the seeds, production, everything. Every last puddle in the world! [Laughs]

FULFORD: They're talking about building 500 nuclear power plants in China, and I don't know if they're later going to hit 'em with the earthquake machine or something.

These people have to realize that their era of controlling the world is coming to an end. They're going to have to share it with the people of the planet.

It will have to be a smooth transition -- otherwise it's going to be a violent one. And I don't want that, because they are going to be the losers.

PAUL: I don't want to hog all your time, but I have studied these issues a long time and this is a deep well to fish in. I don't think it's just one little...

RENSE: That's an excellent description. It is a deep, dark well. And you're right, and I think all of us know that, basically.

FULFORD: Sure. And you've got to use a process like Judo. You've got to use their strength against them.

I appreciate email content, if you have more details or information I should know. My information comes straight from very senior people in the Japanese government, and then these Chinese folks. I have to represent their interests. It's not just my own opinion.

What they're saying is right now we just want the Rockefellers to stop their insanity. They say that these are the people who are the source of the biggest problem.

[Bumper music]

RENSE: Very good. And Paul, keep up your research. I very much appreciate that.

Okay. We're going to pause and come right back with Benjamin Fulford, who again made the point in his first visit -- and it's rather obvious -- that SARS is the odds-on candidate to have been the latest, most recent biological warfare effort which is ethno-specific, i.e. Asian. No doubt.

It didn't work, for a variety of reasons. The earthquake is another big issue. There is a lot on the table here. And it is a very deep well.

Be right back in just a couple minutes.

[Break]

FULFORD: Okay, we're back with Benjamin Fulford, and talking about a lot of things now.

Do you see the Chinese playing the dollar to the extent that it will put pressure on the Rothschilds? Forget about the secret society for a minute. There's a lot of potential leverage over there. What do you think the Communist Chinese are up to?

FULFORD: The primary answer I mentioned last time is a process of deciding what humanity will do in the future. About 65 percent of the world's excess money is in Asia, which means that the Asians now actually have the power to decide what will happen in the future of this planet.

They haven't been exercising that power yet, but it is just a matter of time.

That scares a lot of the people in the West who have been used to controlling things for years. They are not sure what to do about this situation.

The Chinese do not want the American people to become poor, because they would lose their best customers. They don't want to cause turmoil.

At the same time, they don't like being made fools of and being ripped off. They don't want to have all these hardworking Chinese supporting the US military machine so they can be used against China!

RENSE: Got it.

FULFORD: So something is happening. There's been a fundamental change. The rule of the West has come to an end. It's going to be a rule of the people of the planet, not just one ethnic group. That's what's happened.

If you look at the UN's prominent council members, four out of five are Europeans. The Europeans are only 17 percent of the world's population. It's a party -- a global party.

The rest of the planet said, "Okay, you guys under this moronic Bush regime have totally messed things up. You've disqualified yourselves. You've ruined the planet, and we've got to change the way this planet is run." That's what the entire planet is coming to realize.

Everyone is saying, "We don't want you creating artificial wars anymore. We don't want your killing of genocide. This is not the way we want this planet to run."

They've got to realize that their jig is up. It's over. It's finished. They just have to manage a smooth transition.

It's game over. They just haven't realized it yet, or they don't want to.

RENSE: Well, we'll see. You've given them 48 hours to meet with you at the Fulford estate in Canada.

FULFORD: Or at least to contact me [to set up the meeting].

RENSE: We'll find out if there's a contact made in 48 hours.

800-259-9231, 800-259-9231 is our number here. In Texas, I think Mike is on the line. Are you there, Mike, holding?

MIKE: Yes. Good evening, Jeff. Thank you for taking my call, sir.

RENSE: You're welcome. Thanks for calling.

MIKE: Before we get started, is it correct that you used to work for the corporate media?

RENSE: Well, I did, yes. Who are you talking to? Both of us?

MIKE: Yeah, you. Jeff, yeah.

RENSE: Yeah, I was under contract to the Premiere Radio Networks for five years.

MIKE: So you realize the game of how the corporate media and all that works.

RENSE: Well, yeah.

MIKE: Getting to all those things, Ben, can you hear me, sir?

FULFORD: Yes.

MIKE: You talk about great things happening. I want to talk to you about what's happening to the south of the United States right now.

A few years ago I visited Brazil and Argentina, and I'll tell you what. There's something quietly happening and it's a very good change. The Brazilian people, the people from Argentina and Chile, are really turning progressive compared to what they were in the past -- dictatorships.

Did you know about that?

FULFORD: Yeah. I know. They're on to the full Yankee game, and have been for a long time. They were the original victims of these people.

RENSE: Ben, here's a little aside that will help make the point. I talked to a Brazilian once, and he laughed. He said one of the biggest jokes among Brazilians in the know is that they don't own their own country.

MIKE: [Laughs]

RENSE: It's owned by the Rockefellers and the Rothschilds, and the globalist bank.

MIKE: Right. And they're getting fed up down there. And I talked to a couple Brazilians. They don't want to see their environment destroyed. It's these trans-national global corporations that are doing most of the deforestation in the Amazon -- because that's where the oil's at.

FULFORD: Yeah, look. It's not just the South Americans. If you really come down to it, we reach a situation where you just need a slight spark.

You will find that Africans, South Americans, the Muslims, the people in India, China, Japan and Russia -- everywhere -- are saying "Hey, you guys, enough is enough. We're tired of what you're doing to this planet."

And it's just a matter of everyone saying, "Okay, talk." It's coming -- it's coming.

MIKE: Do you think, in your opinion, sir, that the US military will do the stupidest thing and attack Iran, in your opinion? Do you think that's going to happen?

FULFORD: I hope they learned from the German military. One by one they let Hitler fire generals until suddenly they all had to do exactly what Hitler said.

MIKE: Right.

FULFORD: Hitler was wildly popular, in his time, before the war started. By contrast, the Bush regime is wildly unpopular. When they start firing generals one by one, until they get a bunch of yes-men, then they will go down in the history books as great idiots and villains.

I believe they are smart enough and honorable enough to know that their first loyalty is to the American people and to the Constitution.

RENSE: Let's hope so. You know, you made a very good point. A lot of people continue to try to equate the current status and configuration of the United States geopolitically with Germany in the 1930s, and there really is no comparison at all to be made that I can see.

It's absurd! It's the opposite, in many ways.

[Bumper music]

There are a few overt parallels, but Germany under the Treaty of Versailles was a nation in pillory, being punished continually. It was a whole different situation.

MIKE: Jeff, do you think they're going to attack Iran, in your opinion?

RENSE: Do I think they will be ordered to attack Iran by the globalists, by the 17 percent of the planet, the Europeans, where these power centers -- the Rockefellers and the Rothschilds -- are located? Do I think that's going to happen? It looks like 50-50 at this point. We will see.

Stand by. You're welcome to another question, Mike, if you like after the break. We have to pause for just a few minutes and we will be back with Benjamin Fulford.

[Break]

RENSE: Okay, right back with all of you. Mike in Texas. One more question, Mike, if you have one.

MIKE: Sure. And thanks for letting me hold over the break. I appreciate that.

RENSE: Sure.

MIKE: The other question is, in this new era of peace, do you think we're going to continue to see more improvements in curing diseases, medicine and healthcare?

And finally, the Japanese. It seems like there's no poverty over there, because the gap between the workers and the corporate leaders is not as big. So go ahead and answer those two questions.

FULFORD: Sure. I think that most disease can be eliminated. The international medicine companies need disease in order to make a profit!

MIKE: Right.

FULFORD: The traditional Asian system was that if the patient was sick, then the doctors stopped getting money! So they had an incentive to make sure that nobody ever got sick.

RENSE: That's fascinating! I've never heard that before.

FULFORD: So you change the way the financial system is rigged, and give the incentive to the corporations to eliminate disease, and it will be gone in no time.

RENSE: We have the ability to cure most disease -- to prevent most disease -- right now.

FULFORD: So it's just a poor system that gives incentive to the companies to create disease. That's obviously got to change.

Now the Japanese gap between the lowest employee and the chairman, in income, is something like 20 times per year -- but in the US it's about four HUNDRED times. But the Americans have been trying to force the Japanese government to put in policies that will create huge income gaps -- and they have.

Young people are finding it hard to get lifetime employment. They're forced into low-pay, dead-end jobs. They're very unhappy. There is a huge dis-affected youth movement here, because they have been offered just junk jobs. That's because of the Americans twisting the Japanese arm.

The Japanese don't like it. They had a system that worked. They had a system where everybody was middle class. The Americans are trying to destroy it. That's not going to be allowed to continue.

MIKE: I'm very optimistic about that. Gentlemen, you have a good night, and thank you for taking my call.

RENSE: Thanks, Mike. Thanks very much.

Okay. Still time for some of you to get in here on the phones, if you would like to talk to Benjamin Fulford. 800-259-0931.

Taiwan... Taiwan. [As for] those 17 percent of the Europeans who are controlling much of what goes on in the world, what are they going to do about stopping China from turning Taiwan into Hong Kong II if they wanted to?

FULFORD: Well, they can't. I think ultimately their big plan was to get the Japanese military, the US military and the NATO military all in tune, and then pick a fight over Taiwan -- force a referendum in Taiwan, pick a fight with China, and crush China.

That's not going to happen.

The Taiwanese do not want to be under the communist rule. They really do not want that. I do believe there can be a compromise where they can live as they've always lived and just change flags.

This is not something -- I don't think the Chinese are going to be so stupid as to let themselves be provoked into a war. And if they are, it will be on their terms. They can already sink the US aircraft carriers. Those things are giant white elephants, and the American military doesn't realize it yet!

RENSE: Oh yeah. They are floating iron graveyards. And by the way, they're full of nuclear bombs and radiation too. Yeah, they're amazing. They're obsolete. You're right. They can be taken out with hypersonic cruise missiles. People who study military armaments know it.

FULFORD: Yeah -- and the Americans still relied on their satellites, and those could be punched out by the Chinese military with their missiles.

RENSE: Blinded. They've already apparently done so. The Chinese have developed weapons systems to do that. So yes.

FULFORD: The Russians have these systems. So the US military is really a paper tiger. They don't realize it.

The other thing is look what happened with a little country like Iraq. How the hell are they going to invade China, or India or something? They cannot!

RENSE: Well, there's no chance. It's not going to happen. And they're not going to run an aircraft carrier, a super-carrier group in between Taiwan, and run them down the straight to Taiwan or wherever, and stop China from literally devouring Taiwan in days. It just won't happen.

FULFORD: Absolutely. So their whole scheme is falling apart.

They're afraid. These Europeans are afraid. They think [to themselves], "We are confident. We know how to manage an economy. If we have all these strange colored peoples running the planet, it's all going to go to ruin."

It's just like the white people in South Africa thinking, "If we let Mandela be in charge, everything's going to go to hell."

It's wrong-headed thinking. That's not how it works.

They have their little gatherings, but look at Bilderberg. They consider themselves a secret government, but they won't even let any Japanese in there, or anybody who is not European. They're shooting themselves in the foot...

RENSE: It's a private European club. You're right. That's another excellent observation.

So the Chinese. What about the Indians? 1.1 billion people!

FULFORD: In the Indian newspapers, they won't refer to them as the US government -- they call them the ruling families. They know the truth. They were controlled by the Rothschilds for 300 years, and Gandhi threw them out. They know what the story is.

And they're not going to let themselves be under control again, ever. And they're starting to develop.

They've got 83 percent of the planet now saying "Enough is enough!" The people inside Europe and inside North America are sick and tired of this European Union / EU propaganda.

The Americans are appalled by their government. It's just an endgame situation. We're really like Russia before the collapse of the Iron Curtain.

We're on the verge of something really big. It's going to be a total collapse of the 300-year-old political order, and the beginning of a new one.

And these people have a choice between a peaceful transition that will benefit them, and a chaotic transition that will leave them all dead. Or something in between.

And I'm trying to say to them, "Go for the peaceful route. Let's try to make everybody as happy as possible." We have to do that by realizing that they are not God. They are not the superior people who are destined to rule everybody as slaves. That's not going to happen.

RENSE: [Laughs] Most Americans do literally, those who care about the world, have a pretty serious case of tunnel vision. They see America and Europe, and everything else is third-world in their mind, if they think about it at all. The point of the issue is that this is the minority, when you look at the planet in this totality.

FULFORD: Sure. There's a joke in Asia. What do you call somebody who speaks three languages? Trilingual. What do you call somebody who speaks two languages? Bilingual. What do you call somebody who speaks one language? American.

RENSE: [Laughs]

FULFORD: Sticking only to English, and only to their own culture, they're getting more and more left behind. The Japanese, the Chinese, they know all about European culture and philosophy and everything.

[Bumper music]

But the reverse is not true. Europeans and Americans are ignorant of the world, and their ignorance will destroy them.

RENSE: Your point is well taken. Okay, hold on. Our final segment ready tonight with Benjamin Fulford, live from Tokyo. We'll do that in just a couple.

[Break]

RENSE: All right, let's go up to Montana and say hello to Mike.

Hello, Mike, welcome to the program!

MIKE: Well, hello. Thank you for taking my call.

RENSE: My pleasure.

MIKE: Just a couple things real quick. I want to thank Benjamin for doing this service for what he is doing for our country. We applaud you up here in Montana. Thank you so much.

FULFORD: Well, thank you.

MIKE: I was wondering if there's any truth to what you had heard or know about... I've heard for years now there is a million-man Chinese army down in the Mexican border waiting to come across. Do you know anything about that?

RENSE: No. False. It's not true.

FULFORD: I have heard nothing like that and I wouldn't believe it. You can't hide a million-man army.

RENSE: No. It's just not true. It's unfortunately, excuse me, Ben.

Mike, having dealt with the Internet for a long, long time -- I'm sure you have too -- these kinds of stories pop up from time to time. They're so fantastic, for some reason intelligent people will grab them. They will say, "It's too much of a lie. There has to be some truth to it."

In this case, there is none.

MIKE: Okay. Wonderful. I am glad to hear that.

FULFORD: You know, some people are also skeptical about whether or not there really is this Chinese secret society. I have given out a phone number to the US intelligence people. They can confirm it. It's not a false story.

These people are real and they are very, very serious. They are mostly scholars.

So you have these Chinese in every research laboratory in the US. You have them controlling Silicon Valley. It's not just gangsters and assassins. They are all very intelligent people.

To get into this society, you [either] have to be very intelligent or you have to be a gangster. So if these people do decide to move, there will be no stopping them. This is not some crazy Internet thing. I can provide a phone number or a website. You can check it in the history books.

The other thing some people are skeptical about is [the idea of a] Ninja. Ninjutsu is the hardest of all the martial arts. They've been training US Special Forces since the end of World War II. Anybody knows they are real.

About 100,000 US Special Forces have received that training -- special martial arts training. So there is a force -- I know it sounds funny. Ninjas -- Teenage Mutant [Ninja] Turtles or something, but no. These are real people.

So anything I've said can be independently verified. And I want to make that clear. I'm not some nutcase.

I'm a guy who asked the wrong questions. I asked, "Why doesn't Japan use their money to save the planet?" I was told the answer is that "It's because the Rockefellers won't let us, and we'd like you to help us deal with the situation."

That's what I'm trying to do.

MIKE: Well, that's just... we totally believe that what you're doing is true.

I do have one other thing. I was wondering if you have heard of any other homeland security buildup in any other cities across the country.

We have heard here in Callasville (ph) Montana, there were 300,000 more Homeland Security people coming in. A big B-52 bomber flew in at our airport. Military helicopters have been flying in.

RENSE: And you've never seen a B-52 there before?

MIKE: No.

RENSE: That's interesting.

FULFORD: These people have hired tons and tons of mercenary troops, tons and tons of soldiers and bully boys. They think they've got all the bully boys lined up so they can do whatever they want. The trick to stopping these people is learning from Mahatma Gandhi.

Do not fight them. That plays into their hands. Just ignore them. Passive resistance. A general strike is all it would take.

The Americans are being turned into couch potatoes. Fine. Have a couch potato revolution! Stay at home and watch TV. Don't go to work!

If they come up with a fake terrorist attack again, if they want to declare martial law, then just declare a general strike. Everybody stay home and watch TV, and that will be it. That's all it takes to flush these people out.

They have all the hard power and they have zero soft power. They don't have the hearts and minds, and therefore they're doomed. That's the thing to remember.

They look so strong, they look so overwhelming, but people don't believe in them. People won't follow them.

So please don't try to fight them. That'll be like peasants with pitchforks against steel-bearing mercenaries. That plays into their hands.

That's why I'm trying to get the Chinese to avoid anything that would give these guys an excuse to scale up into World War III. That's what they want. Everybody else wants peace.

So it's got to be a peace movement. A real one. A strong one. One that, at the end of the day, if you have to, you will kill. But first, let's talk.

RENSE: Also keep in mind that Representative Congressman DeFazio is not even being told [what is going on]. He is supposed to be in oversight over Homeland Security. They won't tell him what their plans are in case of a national emergency and martial law potential.

So there are big plans afoot for sure. I can't tell you with any specificity what is going on. Your observations are very important. If you've never seen a B-52 there, one would perhaps ask the airport what it was doing there, just for fun, and see what they say. It's interesting for sure.

FULFORD: There is some secret base near Mount Fuji where they have all these funky new-generation aircraft that look like UFOs. [This base] has been very active recently.

They are trying. They're desperate. This is their last big stunt. I'm trying to tell them, "Please, don't. It's a mistake. It won't work. Back down before it's too late."

The thing is, they're scared and they're desperate. So we have to make them a peaceful alternative.

RENSE: They clearly do feel that the clock is ticking. Mike, thanks very much for your calls.

MIKE: You bet. And thank you very much for your time, and we bless you.

RENSE: Thank you.

Yeah. Desperation. Desperate men, desperate women, desperate people, who are satanic in their orientation, can do desperate things.

It will be interesting to see. You are the messenger, so we will find out. In 48 hours, we'll see if you get a response. You have given a phone number to an intelligence agency where they can check out and find out about this secret society. One would think they already have a profile on them, if nothing else.

FULFORD: They've already checked them out. They sent someone to try to tell lies about me. So they know I'm telling the truth.

It's not just the Chinese. There's other people now on the move.

What I'm trying to tell them is, "Whatever you've got planned for August, talk to me first." Maybe there's a better opportunity, something that will benefit everybody -- including them -- out there.

So before they do this desperate thing and try to trigger this final war, I tell them it's not going to work. People aren't going to fall into their little trap.

RENSE: One of the saddest things is to watch these Christian Zionists just follow this lead right into oblivion. They will be the last to figure it out.

Here's a story in the New York Times today, Ben:

"Bomb by bomb, Japan sheds military restraints -- Japan is blurring the line between defensive and offensive military power, in spite of its pacifist constitution, rattling nerves in Northeast Asia."

True, or untrue?

FULFORD: Well, they've been trying to get the Japanese people into a military mood, but they still have an article in the constitution that forbids them from using the military as an offensive instrument. Public opinion is still 70 percent against this.

They are trying to get the Japanese army to work as a subdivision of the US army. That's not going to happen. They think it's going to happen, but it's not.

But yes. The Japanese military is huge. It's vast. It's maybe one of two or three in the world [of that size].

RENSE: I've heard that, and it's rather a surprise to most Americans. I didn't know it was that large.

FULFORD: The Germans [had the same thing] before World War II. They had lots of officers, lots of weapons and very few troops.

Then it's just a matter of dragging a bunch of men in, and giving them basic training, to build a giant army. Then you've got infantry.

The Japanese don't want to be involved in a war. They are sick of these racist, elitist people who have been ripping them off for so long.

RENSE: I would be too.

FULFORD: So things are going to change. We're looking at the fall of the Western Berlin Wall. It's going to be a wonderful time for everybody.

So hang in there. This is just before sunrise. This is my view. It's the darkest hour before sunrise and everything will be good.

These people, hopefully, they won't carry out their crazy scheme...

RENSE: What is it about August, Ben, that you may know? I don't expect you to tell me everything...

FULFORD: Well, I don't know anything too special, except that the Congress is going into recession and people like Cheney have been going way overboard with their arrogance.

The people in Japan are also talking about something going on in August.

I think [the big event] is going to be whatever this secret project is they've been working on for so long.

So if you see a space-aliens fleet invading, don't believe it until you see it with your own eyes. It will probably be computer graphics and then some US secret military vessels that you are seeing, and not an alien invasion.

RENSE: So you do think, and we talked briefly about this last time -- you do think there is a potential that the ET trump card might be the one that is about to be played.

FULFORD: Well, they're up to something big. There's been a lot of activity in that base near Mount Fuji. There are lots of reports of funky flying vehicles.

I remember these people got their original inspiration from War of the Worlds, in 1938.

They weren't ready. They got caught before they were ready. They were planning this, I think, for 2012. I don't think they're going to be able to pull it off. I know they're not.

It would be a horrible mistake for them to try to do this. It's not going to work.

RENSE: Okay.

FULFORD: So we'll see. Hopefully this summer will be the beginning of a new, happy time for everybody on the planet. That's what we're praying for and looking for.

RENSE: My feeling is 2008 is the pivotal year, not 2012. But we'll see.

FULFORD: Hopefully they will not be able to write the scenario anymore. The world is tired of them. Every war in the past century -- big war -- has been caused by them.

RENSE: Well, 17 percent, as you say, of the world's population -- the Europeans -- have done it.

FULFORD: Yeah. And they're scared, but they shouldn't be. The rest of the world isn't as dumb and incompetent as they think.

RENSE: We don't want to forget about what they're trying to do to Russia either. Russia is fully aware of the fact that the Rothschilds cannot be allowed to be back in control of Russia. That right now is the big issue in Europe.

FULFORD: They've lost Russia, they've blown out China, Japan, they've lost India, they've lost South America, Africa, the Muslim countries. Everybody on Earth is saying, "We don't want you to do this anymore."

So it's game over. I'm here to offer them a graceful and honorable transition into something that will benefit them too. I'm their best hope.

[Bumper music]

RENSE: Ben, thanks very much. Thank you for the conversation again. I will be standing by to find out what happens, so keep me posted, if you would. Thank you.

FULFORD: Yeah, I will. Thank you again for letting me appear on the show. It's been a great honor.

RENSE: Okay. Good night.

Benjamin Fulford, live from Tokyo. We'll take a break and come right back in 21 hours tomorrow night, with an outstanding program for you. In the meantime, lots to think about. See you tomorrow.

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