Alchemy Forum 0801-0850

From January 25th 1996, the Alchemy forum was restructured and the messages were sequentially numbered. This is an unedited extract of messages 801-850.
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Thu May 02 22:10:50 1996
Subject: 0801 Regarding Occult training

From: calhhh
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 16:53:45 -0400

Fellow seekers :

I always enjoy Pat's folkloric and sincere manner of speach,
specially when regarding to "cutting crap aside" matters...

He said :

>reading Oska Bernhardt's paper on the no no's of occult training really got
>my dander up. It's the biggest piece of crap I have read in years with all
>the usual platitiudes and trimmings. There are so many holes in his theories
>that you could drive a truck through them.

I agree with Pat when speaking about occult knowledge and training.
There is no question that many so called "occult" organizations
are nothing else than a bunch of quacks, liars, or depravate people,
out to ripp-off as much people as as they can; but let us not
turn our backs as well to the inmense contribution to humanity,
that some organizations and individuals have made through sharing their
knowledge about the "occult" in relation with many fields of knowledge,
including the arts, philosophy and science alike.

The History of humanity itself, no matter which angle we wish to look
it from, either religious and/or philosophic is but an intricate web of
religious/trascendent/occult experiences, that have brought as a result
TANGIBLE, MATERIAL AND SCIENTIFIC KNWOLEDGE. Lets look at history
and find out who truly discussed first the Atom, or even electricity,
and we will surely find restless "occultists" (in the best sense of the
world) hard at work; true philosophers of nature, meaning LOVERS OF
THE TRUTHS/KNOWLEDGE OF NATURE, for whom all of us not only should be
grateful, but in many ways should try to emulate.

Furthermore, I can not conceive of alchemy without the "occult",
again in the best sense of the world, because I can not conceive of
an Artist, that at some point of his search, would not have to look
to the Upper and Inner Worlds for light and wisdom ...

As with anything else in life, all of us that have been fortunate to
participate in formal occult training, must take the good and shed
that which within our Self we feel is not according to our path,
thoughts, morals or ideals. Looking back at Alexandria, Egypt,
India, and so many birthplaces of schools of Occult Knowledge, and
even wondering about the possibility of not having been able to
receive the knowledge that those teachers and their students brought
to our history, I conclude that it would not only leave us without
the greatest teachers that nowadays History recognize as leaders
in the most diverse fields of Wisdom, but would place us right now
again in the darkest and most cruelsome stages of the Middle ages,
among fanatism, inquisitors, and dogmatic regents, GOD FORBIDS !

However, and as I have mentioned before, we are living in special
times, trial and difficult times, but as well blossoming and specially
kind times for seekers. In many ways, egregores, and specially certain
types of them, have passed their time and useful purposes, and each
individual must start taking "personal" positions and decisions as to
their own path. It is a time for taking action, since in my oppinion
the old path for a sage or a shaman to live alone in a cave, with all
due respect, is way past gone. The need for True Teachers is greater
than ever, but students, as taught in the Alexandrian schools, shall
not be required to be "believers", but to be "seekers" ...

GOOD and KNOWLEDGE are indeed part of the same equation !
And the alchemists "occult" path of keeping the feet on earth and
head in heaven, shall warn us to keep our eyes and senses
(beyond the 5th ...) right awake to True Wisdom, no matter
where it comes from ... OCCULT SHOOLS and all !

Love to all,

ORCIS
[email protected]

Thu May 02 22:10:59 1996
Subject: 0802 Divine Revelation & Secrecy

From: Rawn Clark
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 16:39:15 -0400

Douwe wrote:
>"So, secrets don't exist more then the bolts that lock the full/new
>soul and spirit and body from them, and these same bolts have to be
>removed by yourself, no one will be able to do that for you.
>From that point on the secrets will not be secrets anymore, but you
>might find yourself saying less....."

You touch here on what the sages described as "Divine revelation", which for
me, is at the root of "secrecy" as it relates to things alchemical or occult.
Of course, in the absence of such revelations, we can find no valid reason
(historical persecution aside) for this related secrecy. The old adage about
not seeing the forest because of one's focus upon the individual trees, is
apt here...we are Naturally limited by our perspective. Furthermore,
"secrecy" has become "tradition" and is often applied to innocuous things, in
completely inappropriate ways (often out of the personal ego needs of the
occultor), simply because that is what one has learned to do.

I would like to illustrate "Divine revelation" and the secrecy it engenders,
by a personal story. For many years, I applied my interpretation of the
alchemical texts in a purely "spiritual" sense of a serious mental and astral
discipline. This approach has served me well and led me to places and states
of being that amaze and satisfy me. Along this journey, I have come to see
things differently (the whole point of a journey, no?), and now seek to
pursue a physical, laboratory alchemy in an effort to physically manifest
what I have achieved astrally and mentally. Every step along the way, every
experience, has served to slightly or greatly, broaden my perspective. [ I
blush then grin then laugh uproariously when I read some of my original
journal entries! ;-) ]

At any rate, I recently came to a realization as regards a certain matter. I
was utterly amazed and awestruck by the Sublime Obviousness of my seemingly
'hard won' realization. The Utter Simplicity of it, combined with the fact
that I hadn't seen it till that moment, abide no other words than "Divine
revelation"! The impact of this quite simple -- humbling, in fact --
realization has been quite cathartic, and has opened a whole new doorway of
my journey.

I needed to discuss this with someone more learned than my humbled self, and
in doing so, found that I couldn't actually name it in writing... Certainly,
I could have physically written anything I chose, and as was pointed out to
me, many had plainly done so before me; but that was not the issue. I felt
no injunction from outside of myself, the reluctance came purely from within.
It comes from my respectful worship of Divine Providence, and the sacredness
I see in the inividual journey of discovery that S/He has led me through. It
does not feel to be within my domain to deny another the struggle and the joy
of such a process of Divine revelation, so even in writing to one who already
knew, I could only speak in symbols. Of course, my meaning was plain to this
one who already had made their own journey.

My point is that certain things are made secret not by virtue of their not
being everywhere plainly stated, but by virtue of our limited perspective and
understanding. Essential secrecy (as opposed to an egoistic secrecy) is not
a function of someone withholding information; but rather, a function of the
maturity of our ability to understand what they are saying in the way in
which *they* are meaning it.

Learning Nature's language, so to speak, has led me to a deep and abiding
faith that there will always be little revelations along the way, for each
and every one of us. Each "secret" will be realized in one's own time and in
one's own way, simply because that's Nature's way.

:) Rawn Clark
2 May 96

Fri May 03 16:57:46 1996
Subject: 0803 Capillary Dynamic Studies

From: John Reid
Date: Fri, 03 May 1996 08:52:03 -0400

My apologizies for taking so long to post this information
but I have been very busy lately.

I would like to clear one thing up, the processes described
here do not afford for a QUANTITATIVE measurement as
misstated ion my earlier post, they afford the alchemist
QUALITATIVE measurment of celestial forces.

The process to be described is used to measure the etheric of
formative forces emitted by celestial bodies, on terestrial
matter. The methodology can be used on plants and metals.

This post deals with the process on plants, another post will
deal with the process in metals. If there is enough intrest
then we can talk about how to incorporate this into the
production of an alchemical plant stone.

I am not going to try and reprint the entire book here but
just to give some of the salient points of how to proceed
with these test. I will of course try to answer any questions
that may arise from the lack of information contained herein.
(I am working on getiing the english rights so that Koliskos
and Fyfe's works can be taken off the self and placed into
the hands of lab workers where they belong. Too there are
some beautiful pictures showing the formative forces.)

Instructions for making Capillary-dynamic Test.

The following procedure is used for capillary dynamic studies
on plants. Please remember that here substances are examined
not with regard to material content, but fro the aspect of
the formative forces active in them.

The actual process is actually quite simple. Gatther and
prepare the fileter paper, metalsalt reagent, glasses plant
as described below. Plce the sap into the dish and then put
the rolled filter paper standing on one end into the glass.
All the sap to rise into the paper and dry. Then add the
reagent and allow it to dry. The pictures formed will be a
snap shot of the formative forces active in the plant at the
time of its harvest.

Metalsalt solution is used because a drop of sap shows very
little form on filter paper. It is only when the addition of
the metal salt solution that a picture of the formative
forces can be developed.

GENERALLY THE BEST PICTURES ARE PRODUCED WHEN TWICE THE
AMOUNT OF REAGENT TO SAP IS USED.

THE WEATHER:

Comparisions of pictures made from mistletoe picked every day
during two consecutive months showed an unbroken series of
pictures of the same basic type, although the rainfall during
one of these months was sixteen times more than the other.
Very many other simalar comparisons led to the same
conclusion, that the amount of rainfall does not influence
the sap in a way that shows in the test.
In winter mistletoe is often thickly coated with frost and
the leaves sometimes limp and dark in colour. They soon
regain their usual green colour, and the sap pictures show
nothing unusual. One year the mistletoe on the host tree used
was encased for three days in a coat of clear ice several
milimeters thisck. But the sap pictures showed no signs of
these unusaul circumstances. Extremem atmospheric and ground
temperatures do not affect the plant sap in a way that shows
in the test.

THE SEASONS:

The visable form of the plant chnages with the seasons,
developing in the same way from year to year. The forms that
appear in the filter papershows that the plant mirrors
quickly changing "time pictures" in its sap. These remain
hidden till the capillary-dynamic process makes them visable.
The pictures made every day for over twelve years from the
same parts of the plant, namely the grown leaves and stems of
apple mistletoe show that these changing time pictures are
independent of the seasons.

PHYSICAL AND CHEMICAL PROCESSES IN THE PAPER:

The part played by chemical processes willbe disregarded. A
number of observations listed below made it clear that a
study of the chemical reactions between plant substance and
metalsalt solution would not bring us further in the search
for the cause of the continual changes in form in the
capillary dynamic test.

a) Different metalsalts in solution produce different
chemical reactions with the same sap, yet these same
metalsalt solutions used as reagents on this sap produce
capillary dynamic test with the same formative trnds.

b) Any metalsalt in solution produces different chemical
reactions according to whether it is mixed with the sap of
mistletoe, iris or hellebore. yet if these three plants are
picked at the same time and their saps examined by capillary
dunamolysis with this same metalsalt solution on each as
reagent, the same formative impulse shows in all three test,
though it usually varies in strength and colour.

c) When the procedure is reversed so that the plant sap rises
through the metalsalt solution in a paper, no forms appear
although the substances are the same.

d) If the sap and reagent are mixed and then set to rise in
the paper by capillary attraction, they produce a formless
ccoloured area. When the whole paper is immersed in the
mixture to catch the reacton as qickly as possible, the
result is again formless.

e) Mistletoe sap was treated in a centerfuge, 5000 rot per
minute for 10 minutes. The liquid separated from the mass of
deposited substance was compared by capillary dynamolysis
with the original unterated sap. The liquid and the untreated
sap showed the same form strength with silver nitrate as
reagent. The only difference was that the usual dark band at
the bottom of the paper was absent i the test made from the
liquid.

THE PART PLAYED BY THE REAGENT:

It is known from the work of L. Kolisko that the time when
the metalsalt solution rise in the paper, for example during
the eclipse of the Sun or Moon, is of primary importance. Is
the time when the metalsalt solution rises as reagent to a
plant sap important? Experiments have shown that the reagent
is necessary to develop the picture , but the time when it
does so is not important.

THE PLANT:

It was found that without a doubt the time when a plant is
picked determines the form pattern in its sap. As long as a
plant is connected with the Earth it will reflect constantly
changing time pictures in their sap. When picked or uprooted
it loses its capacity and holds the picture of its last
moment in connection with the Earth. Very marked forms
evident in fresh sap can still be seen when test are made
months later, altered but recognisable in spite of the
fermentation of the sap.

DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE PLANT:

The saps from different parts of a good many plants were
examined to see whether the separate parts, root, leaf, bud,
flower would all produce the same test picture. It was found
that each plant has its own picture but that its different
parts produce variations on this individual theme.

STAGES OF GROWTH:

Mistletoe is an evergreen plant that grows new leaves every
year so it is possible to compare the sap of these with that
of grown leaves on the same twigs. Experiments have shown
that four main stages of growth can be distinguished by the
capillary dynamic study. It is interesting to note that the
habitat of the host tree does not affect the mistletoe
picture. In a few cases where it was possible to arrange to
pick mistletoe at the same time in places hudreds of miles
apart, the sap pictures were similar. At other times when a
sudden change appeared, the same was evident in pictures of
mistletoe picked on the same day in distant places.

THE PAPER:

a) The same sap will produce the same fundamental forms in
every filter paper. In hard paper they will be smaller, more
restricted, in soft paper bigger, freer, than in a medium
paper. Series made for comparission should always be made
with the same paper. The test made in the book that I have
used Whatman Nr. 1

b) Direction. The paper should be used so that the direction
of the stronger capillary attraction is the same in all
pictures. the simplest way of finding this is to let a drop
of water fall on an upper corner of the papaer. The water
will spread to an ellipse, the length of which indicates the
stronger direction.

c) Cutting. In order to prevent the edges touching when the
bpaper is rolled to a cylinder, cut a narrow strip from the
right hand side up to about an inch from the top. Use a
pattern for this, so that the final width for each cut paper
remains the same.

d) Rolling. The paper can be rolled adequately between the
two sides of a small roller towel. Checked cloth is useful
because the paper can be placed easily square to the edges.
Put a rod through both ends of the towel, and holding one in
each hand, draw it sharply once or twice downwards over the
edge of a table. the paper will then be rolled enough to
stand alone. Treat each sheet alike, then fasten at the top
with a paper clip.

THE GLASS:

Glass dishes that are specially made to fit the rolled papers
are used. They aloow complete absorbtionn of the measured
quantities, difficult to achiecve with a petri dish. (you can
have pyrex dishes custom made from any laboratory glassware
supplier, like Kontes or Reliance Glass. If you do not want
to incure the expense you can use a petri dish, you may have
to use a larger piece of filter paper and more sap/metal
solution to compensate.)

DUPLICATE TEST:

It is worth while to make at least two pictures with each sap
and reagent. When sudden changes in form type or coloring
appear, or remarkable forms occur in all the papers, mistakes
and paper faultas can be discounted. The later are very rare
in good paper, and in any case they only discolour small
patches without obstructing the capillary absorbtion.

STORING THE TEST:

The pictures are best stored by laying them in booklets of
firm paper and keeping them in the dark. The most important
thing is to keep test made with different metal solutions
apart, in different booklets, even on different shelves. Some
reagents attack others, spoiling the pictures made with them.
For example test made with goldchloride and mercury chloride
take the colour out of pictures developed with silver
nitrate, even when a sheet of paper lies between them.

THE ROOM:

The temperature and humidity i the room should be kept as
constyant as possible. Water can be kept boiling, and large
uncovered dishes filled with water that can evaporate slowly
will help if the atmosphere is dry. Koliskos lab kept a 78%
humidity temp of 68 F. It is best to darken the windows.
Daylight will reduce the silver reagen quickly to the
detriment of the pictures. Goldchloride is not as sensitive
it will suffer from strong sunlight. The colours become
harsh, above all where the light falls to long.

EXTRACTION OF THE SAP:

Clumps of soil adhering to roots, bulbs etc should be removed
before these are wiped clean with a damp cloth. Do not wash
in a way that allows water to be absorbed. Wet leaves should
be dried, others wiped clean. Weigh the parts required,
allowing about one gramme of plat part for each picture to be
made from 50% extract. The parts should be torn into small
pieces, or where necessary cut with a stainless knife. This
helps the destruction with pestle and mortar. Begin with a
small quantity and beat with light firm strokes of the pestle
until the plant structure is broken down. Add small
quantities and repeat till the parts are unrecognizable in
the pulp, except fibres that cannot be destroyed. Avoid
rubbing with the pestle.

CONCENTRATION OF THE SAP:

Any concentration that the paper will absorb can be used.
Some plants give a 100% extract that will rise. The
concentration chosen will depend on the condition of the pure
sap, on the amount of plant substance avaliable and on the
aim of the experiment.
A 50% extract has proved suitable for many plants. This
so-called 50% is obtained by adding equa; weight (volume) of
distilled water to the plant pulp. It need not be left to
stand: sap pressed out almost at once shows more formative
power in the test than when it is extracted after some time.
Moisten a linen cloth with distilled water, wrap the pulp in
it and press the sap out. If more than one person works on
the same experimental series, it is advisable to use a small
press set at a constant pressure to extract the sap.

THE EXAMINATION OF VISCOUS SAP:

Highly viscous saps can scarcely rise through the
capillaries, and tend to form a hard crust in the paper so
that the reagent cannot breakthrough to develop the test.
Such saps can be examined if they are set to rise under a
large glass cylinder or other cover. This procedure enables
the measured quantity of sap to rise without forming a crust.
As soon as absorbtion is complete the cover should be removed
and the sap allowed to dry as usual. the reagent will rise
later without difficulty.
This procedure gives an insight into the form quality of
the sap, but it tends to produce elongated shapes striving in
almost parallel streams. Pictures of saps that rose under
cover are not comparable with those that rose under normal
circumstances. It is never advisable to set the reagent to
rise under cover. this produces distended, gaseous looking
forms.

PREPARATION OF THE REAGENT:

1 gr. of the metalsalt in question is dissolved in 99 ml of
distilled water and called a 1% solution. Correspondingly 2
gr. in 98 ml water is called 2%. Solutions of 1 weight or 1
gr./100 ml water can of course be used. It is immaterial
which method is used for the reagent in these test, but the
chosen should be used constantly.

CONCLUSION:

The changes that appear inb the sap in spite of constant
working conditions are not chaotic. Variations in form and
colour gradually change the whole into someting new. The
birth and passing away of a form or colour wave can cover
weeks or only a few days. Sometimes very sudden but
shortlived changes take place: certain picture types appear,
disappear, only to reappear months or even years later. If a
connection could be found between these "form waves" in Time
and calculable natural rythms, it ought to be possible to
find out what causes the changes in the saps. This would
enable the probable form quality in a plant sap to be
foretold for the immidiate future. The variations in the play
of formative forces in the sap of a medicinal plant for
instance, might well have to do with varitations in its
degree of efficay. It is known that medicinal herbs were
gathered in the past at particular times according to some
faculty or knowledge lost to kost country folk today. The new
knowledge applied, would enable medicinal herbs to be picked
again at the times of their greatest efficacy.

SUMMARY:

The plant sap itself determines the forms that become visible
in the capillary dynamic picture. The reagent develops the
picture independently of when it it is added.

The formative qualities that appear in the sap picture are
dependent on the time the plant was picked.

Plants reflect perpetually changing 'time picture" in their
saps. When they are severed from the Earth this activity
ceases, and the sap holds the form seal of the last moment.

The sap from different parts of the same plant show different
strengths of formative power.

Four chief stages of growth can be distinguished from the
complexity of form that the sap produces in the test
pictures.

The habitat of the plant does not appear to affect its sap in
a way that is shown in capillary dynamic studies.

The formative forces in the sap are not directly influenced
by weather or the seasons. The causes of the constant changes
must be sought elsewhere.

JHRIII

Sat May 04 12:39:21 1996
Subject: 0804 Books by Klossowski de Rola

From: George Randall Leake III
Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 15:27:45 -0500

*Thames and Hudson has a whole series of these. They look somewhat like
those nasty Time-Life Series books, but the Francis King Magic: The Western
Tradition in this series is actually quite excellent (if brief) and I think
qualifies as a good primer on the subject.

*I almost bought this, but now I know my library system has a copy...

*I wonder if it would be worth the trouble of someone out there to tell us
whether this book represents pearls or warmed over dung...

UTCAT LIBRARY CATALOG -- FULL DISPLAY
==============================================================================
AUTHOR: Klossowski de Rola, Stanislas.
TITLE: Alchemy : the secret art / Stanislas de Rola Klossowski.
PUBLISHED: New York, N.Y. : Thames and Hudson, 1985, c1973.
DESCRIPTION: 128 p. : 193 ill. (33 col.) ; 28 cm.
SERIES: Art and imagination
SUBJECTS: Alchemy
ISBN: 0500810036 (pbk.)
OCLC NUMBER: 13726618
FOR CALL NUMBER / LOCATION / STATUS, PRESS ENTER TO RETURN TO BRIEF DISPLAY.

Sat May 04 12:39:29 1996
Subject: 0805 Books by Klossowski de Rola

From: R. Brzustowicz
Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 13:51:52 -0700 (PDT)

Stanislas Klossowski de Rola has the following OCLC entries attributed to
him:

Author: Klossowski de Rola, Stanislas.
Title: Balthus
Pub. Info: New York : H.N. Abrams, 1996
Year: 1996
Physical Descr: p. cm.
Notes: PUBLICATION TYPE: Book
Subject: Balthus, -- 1908- -- Catalogs.
ISBN: 0810931346 (clothbound)
Language: eng
OCLC No: 34474000

Author: Klossowski de Rola, Stanislas.
Title: Alchemy : the secret art
Pub. Info: [London] : Thames and Hudson, 1991 1973
Year: 1991
Physical Descr: 128 p. : 193 ill. (33 col.) ; 28 cm.
Notes: PUBLICATION TYPE: Book
Subject: Alchemy.
Series: Art and imagination
ISBN: 0500810036 (pbk.) :
Language: eng
OCLC No: 31450263

Author: Klossowski de Rola, Stanislas.
Title: El juego aureo : 533 grabados alquimicos del siglo
XVII
Pub. Info: Madrid : Ediciones Siruela, 1988
Year: 1988
Physical Descr: 324 p. : ill. ; 31 cm.
Notes: Translation of: Golden game.
Notes: Includes bibliographical references (p. 322) and
index.
Notes: PUBLICATION TYPE: Book
Subject: Alchemy in art.
Subject: Engraving -- 17th century.
Other Title: Golden game. Spanish
ISBN: 848587692X
Language: spa
OCLC No: 28581693

Author: Klossowski de Rola, Stanislas.
Title: The golden game : alchemical engravings of the
seventeenth century
Pub. Info: London : Thames and Hudson, 1988
Year: 1988
Physical Descr: 320 p. : ill. ; 28 cm.
Notes: Includes index.
Notes: Bibliography: p. 318.
Notes: PUBLICATION TYPE: Book
Subject: Alchemy in art.
Subject: Engraving -- 17th century.
Language: eng
OCLC No: 22010561

Author: Klossowski de Rola, Stanislas.
Title: Le jeu d'or : figures hieroglyphiques et emblemes
hermetiques dans la litterature alchimique du XVIIe
siecle
Pub. Info: Paris : Herscher, 1988
Year: 1988
Physical Descr: 318 p. : ill. ; 28 cm.
Notes: Translation of: Golden game.
Notes: Includes bibliographical references (p. 318) and
index.
Notes: PUBLICATION TYPE: Book
Subject: Alchemy in art.
Subject: Engraving -- 17th century.
Other Title: Golden game. French
Series: Collection Art et spiritualite
ISBN: 2733501380
Language: fre
OCLC No: 21412046

Author: Klossowski de Rola, Stanislas.
Title: Alquimia : el arte secreto
Edition: 1a ed.
Pub. Info: Madrid : Editorial Debate, 1989
Year: 1989
Physical Descr: 128 p. : 193 ill. (33 col.) ; 28 cm.
Notes: Translation of: Alchemy : the secret art.
Notes: PUBLICATION TYPE: Book
Subject: Alchemy.
Other Title: Alchemy. Spanish
ISBN: 847444327X
Language: spa
OCLC No: 21273639
O C L C W o r l d C a t

Author: Klossowski de Rola, Stanislas.
Title: The golden game.
Pub. Info: London : Thames and Hudson, 1988
Year: 1988
Physical Descr: 320 p. : ill., facsims., ports. ; 28 cm.
Notes: PUBLICATION TYPE: Book
Subject: Alchemy.
Subject: Alchemy
ISBN: 0500233551 :
Language: eng
OCLC No: 19066821

Author: Klossowski de Rola, Stanislas.
Title: The golden game : alchemical engravings of the
seventeenth century
Edition: 1st ed.
Pub. Info: New York : G. Braziller, 1988 1987
Year: 1988
Physical Descr: p. cm.
Notes: Includes index.
Notes: Bibliography: p.
Notes: PUBLICATION TYPE: Book
Subject: Alchemy in art.
Subject: Engraving -- 17th century.
ISBN: 0807612006
Language: eng
OCLC No: 17674665

Author: Klossowski de Rola, Stanislas.
Title: Alchemy : the secret art
Pub. Info: New York, N.Y. : Thames and Hudson, 1985
Year: 1985
Physical Descr: 128 p. : 193 ill. (33 col.) ; 28 cm.
Notes: PUBLICATION TYPE: Book
Subject: Alchemy.
Series: Art and imagination
ISBN: 0500810036 (pbk.) :
Language: eng
OCLC No: 13726618

Author: Klossowski de Rola, Stanislas.
Title: Balthus : dipinti
Pub. Info: Milano : Electa, 1983
Year: 1983
Physical Descr: 94 p. : chiefly col. ill. ; 29 cm.
Notes: Translation of: Balthus.
Notes: English ed. published by: London : Thames and Hudson,
Ltd., 1983.
Notes: PUBLICATION TYPE: Book
Subject: Balthus, -- 1908-
Other Author/Title: Balthus, 1908-
Language: ita
OCLC No: 12690882

Author: Klossowski de Rola, Stanislas.
Title: Balthus
Edition: 1st U.S. ed.
Pub. Info: New York : Harper & Row, 1983
Year: 1983
Physical Descr: 100 p. : ill. ; 29 cm.
Notes: PUBLICATION TYPE: Book
Subject: Balthus, -- 1908- -- Catalogs.
Other Author/Title: Balthus, 1908-
Series: Icon editions
ISBN: 0064312755
Language: eng
OCLC No: 9516300

Author: Klossowski de Rola, Stanislas.
Title: Balthus
Pub. Info: London : Thames and Hudson, 1983
Year: 1983
Physical Descr: 100 p. : col. ill. ; 29 cm.
Notes: PUBLICATION TYPE: Book
Subject: Balthus, -- 1908- -- Catalogs.
Subject: Balthus, -- 1908-
Subject: French paintings -- Balthus - Illustrations
Other Author/Title: Balthus, 1908-
ISBN: 0500091552 :
Language: eng
OCLC No: 9318878

Author: Klossowski de Rola, Stanislas.
Title: Alchemy; the secret art.
Pub. Info: New York, Bounty Books 1973
Year: 1973
Physical Descr: 128 p. illus. (part col.) 28 cm.
Notes: PUBLICATION TYPE: Book
Subject: Alchemy.
Language: eng
OCLC No: 1979747
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Author: Klossowski de Rola, Stanislas.
Title: Alchimie; florilege de l'art secret. Augmente de La
fontaine des amoureux de science,
Pub. Info: [Paris] Seuil 1974
Year: 1974
Physical Descr: 128 p. illus. (part col.) 28 cm.
Notes: Includes bibliographical references.
Notes: PUBLICATION TYPE: Book
Subject: Alchemy.
Other Author/Title: La Fontaine, Jean de, b. 1381. La fontaine des
amoureux
de science. 1974.
Language: fre
OCLC No: 1195420
Author: Klossowski de Rola, Stanislas.
Title: Alchemy : the secret art
Pub. Info: New York : Avon Books, 1973
Year: 1973
Physical Descr: 128 p. : ill. ; 28 cm.
Notes: PUBLICATION TYPE: Book
Subject: Alchemy.
Series: The Art and cosmos series
Language: eng
OCLC No: 1152111

Author: Klossowski de Rola, Stanislas.
Title: Alchemy; the secret art.
Pub. Info: London, Thames and Hudson 1973
Year: 1973
Physical Descr: 128 p. illus. (part col.) 26 cm.
Notes: PUBLICATION TYPE: Book
Subject: Alchemy.
ISBN: 0500810036
Language: eng

Hope this helps.

R Brzustowicz

Sat May 04 12:39:38 1996
Subject: 0806 Books by Klossowski de Rola

From: Norm Ryder
Date: Fri, 3 May 96 14:45 PDT

At 17:03 96/05/03 +0000, [email protected] wrote:

>I would like to learn more information about this author, as
>well as to purchase his other works, so I would appreciate
>greatly any insights as to his work, and also the bibliographic
>references of his other books. I recently saw mentioned in the
>forum another of his books by the name of "Le Jeu d'Or",
>published in English as "The Golden Game" but no references
>about publisher, etc. were given.

The Golden Game by Stanislas Klossowski De Rola
pub: George Braziller, Inc
60 Madison Avenue
New York, New York
10010
1988
ISBN 0-8076-1200-6

First published in Great Britan by Thames and Hudson, London 1988

Sat May 04 12:39:47 1996
Subject: 0807 Regarding Secrecy

From: calhhh
Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 18:12:33 -0400

Dear Forum Members :

It is always refreshing to see any teachers' disciple such as
Alec Gathercole speaking so very highly of the one that was kind
enough to share his knowledge, in such an illustrious and unselfish
manner as it defininitively seems to be the case with Frater Albertus.
I surely for one would have enjoyed meeting him ....

ALEC also stated :

>We were told every instruction is either an allegory, an aphorism or
>an attempt to allude to some alternate matter, that the ingredients
>mentioned by name have a title which relates to dual entities and
>is most likely not the object of common everyday familiarity, and
>that there are deliberate omissions in the recipes.

How so very true ! It comes to mind Fabre d'Olivet's book
"Genesis Desciphered" where he clearly explains the threefold
meaning of sacred scripture, each of those meanings truthful and with
a valid message, but each of them understandable only, as per the
reader's stage of development/knowledge.

Alec also said :
>As it was then, so it is today, ...
>It is my understanding that the essential ingredient will only be revealed
>to man by divine revelation when judged to be good and ready having been
>sorely tested by the torch of purification and proven steadfast in all
>areas of respectability. No man has yet been adjudged as reliable enough to
>be entrusted in this role as a deputy for Divine Grace except in very
>exceptional circumstances.

The subject of secrecy has been an important issue of discussion
as long as there have been alchemical viz occult knowledge. The
word HERMETISM in itself became associated through the centuries
with a CLOSED or SECRET subject or matter. I do not really think,
that given the nature of the world we live in, with all its greed
and unjustice, ANY serious alchemist would truly feel that ALL
occult/alchemical knowledge should be unveiled indiscriminately ...
I base this statement on the following :

1) As with any regular knowledge, it would make no sense for a
teacher,for example, to try to teach Calculus to a child that is
just beginning to learn basic math. It is not a matter of a teacher
not wanting his disciple to learn Calculus, it is just not the right
time yet ... To try to make someone understand a given knowledge,
when they are not ready, as douwe said, may become a hindrance on his
path, confusing him more than it was either intended or necessary for
his advancement.

So WHO is to decide when or HOW much should be said ??

-- A) Firstly and fortunately for all, THE LAW OF NATURE being the
-- LAW OF GOD, is wiser than any or the sum of us, and it has been
-- said through the ages, and I humbly but truly agree with the
-- notion, "THAT WHENEVER A STUDENT IS READY, AND PRESENTS ITSELF
-- TO THE DOOR OF THE TEMPLE OF KNOWLEDGE, WILLFULLY KNOCKING IT,
-- THE TEACHER WILL APPEAR, OPEN THE DOOR AND TEACH HIM ENOUGH
-- AS FOR THE STUDENT TO BE ABLE TO CONTINUE HIS PATH, UNTIL THE NEXT
-- DOOR, AND THEN ALL OVER AGAIN ..." So in this case it is the
-- Kosmos, and perhaps our own internal Master, that shall
-- decide when this knowledge will be brought out for us to grasp.
-- All of us, operating in good faith and with sufficient effort
-- and consistency, will be ultimately able to find The Way.

-- B) Secondly, when we speak about a living teacher, it is only
-- up to him to decide, when each of his/her individual students
-- is ready for more information, since as with all decisions in
-- life, he will bear the consequences of his acts, specially if
-- it involves information that should be handled carefully, either
-- due to the nature of the matter involved or to the nature of
-- the information itself. Please consider that a willfull student
-- always want more information, but disagreeing with PETRA on this,
-- not only by asking the question, the student becomes ready, as
-- there are innumerable examples, such as a very young child asking
-- his parents to learn to drive. When using children allegories, I
-- am in no way being sarcastic or diminishing someone else's,
-- commentaries, it is just that I feel we all are like children,
-- eagerly learning and working our way through our path of evolution.

-- I do agree however, that being the student ready, He still have
-- "to knock the door", since as it also has been said, "BEHIND THE
-- DOOR THERE MAY BE MANY PEOPLE EAGERLY WANTING TO HELP", but until
-- such point as when the searcher, so request it, they will not be
-- able to assist ...

2) RUSS, however goes deeper into discussing WHAT should be the basis
for such a decision on HOW MUCH TO SAY .

I agree with the fact that a lot of the secrecy that goes around, is
just a matter of someone wanting to appear to know more than they do,
and/or making themselves seem more important than they truly are.
About these cases, it is just not worth it to refer to.

So let us consider those cases where serious well intended teachers
are pondering this question. Alchemical learning is in many ways a
path towards inner understanding, where the seeker must start to
decipher the innumberable allegories among the enormous amount of
alchemical material available. The allegorical ladder of the
Bible, presented on the Mutus Liber, where the angels go up and
down, bringing information, speak to us of the EXTREMELY NECCESARY
connection that the Alchemist must make with his inner worlds. It is
in a way a very subtle road, and a teacher should be able to pulse
in what precise moment, a "push" or a pull" is desirable as not to
break the adequate balance between inner/outer knowledge, or even
plainly to avoid his student from making a dangerous mistake.

As a matter of fact, many times an apparent "misinterpretation"
of an alchemical allegory may lead a given alchemist to truth and
understanding, and how many times a "mistake or accident" in the
laboratory, have lead us to an important discovery. In a way then,
a teacher must be careful in not transmitting such a huge or complex
amount of information to a given student, that at the end may hinder
his own advancement and perhaps even slow his students own development
of his communication with his inner guide(s). Perhaps is due to
the importance and uniqueness of this INTERNAL REVELATIONS that even
The Philosophers of Nature, that as I understand it, do not share
the view of a restrictive, blanket type secrecy, do mention that
the knowledge received as a result of an individual's own spiritual
manifestation, is for him only (therefore in a way, also becoming
somewhat of a secret ....)

Alchemy is a rather solitary path, and as with any initiatic path,
the important challenges of the road, must be conquered by each
seeker individually. However we all are in need of wise people
that share their knowledge, since otherwise this knowledge would
be lost, becoming utterly useless . So each teacher shall decide
how far and when to speak, and as in most other decisions
in life, the middle of the road in secrecy (leaving out of course
unnecesary witholding of basic knowledge), may be as well the best
point for equilibrium, exceptions granted ...

ORCIS
[email protected]

Sat May 04 12:39:56 1996
Subject: 0808 Need book help

From: douwe
Date: Thu, 02 May 1996 23:06:40 GMT

Dear John

The Philosopher's stone is written by Israel Regardi, it costs $17.95
and its ISBN is 1564592820

This was the only one that I could come up with.

douwe

[email protected]

Sat May 04 12:40:05 1996
Subject: 0809 Laboratory Procedures

From: Joe Champion
Date: Fri, 03 May 1996 16:47:39 -0700

To fellow members of the Alchemy Forum,

In the past, I have taken the posture of observing rather than
participating. However, I feel that it is time to once again surface.
Throughout the various discussions of who should be in the list of 20th
Century Alchemists, my thoughts would include numerous practitioners.

As far as secrecy, most of the time the practitioner does not maintain the
"secret" on purpose. For, by studying numerous examples of alchemy (from
the physical, not metaphysical, sense) the normal practitioner can not
explain the cause of his observed effects. Furthermore, they seem to have
an enormous problem in replication of the events.

To facilitate my position to this forum, I have provided on the Internet,
two examples how one can convert either mercury to gold and platinum, or
lead to gold and platinum. There are no secret sauces. All supplies can be
purchased freely in most cities throughout the World.

FYI - I make my living from the synthetic production of precious metals from
base metals.

To locate these procedures you may go directly to:

Mercury to Gold: http://www.netzone.com/~discpub/ht_pt.html

Lead to Gold: http://www.netzone.com/~discpub/pb_au.html

If any of you attempt these procedures which have a greater than 95%
replication factor, I would appreciate feedback. This feedback can be
either personally or through the forum.

May the Power of Merlin be with You.

Joe Champion

Sat May 04 12:40:15 1996
Subject: 0810 Regarding Occult training
Cc:

From: douwe
Date: Thu, 02 May 1996 23:04:54 GMT

Maybe it is a small thought, but to my idea there is only one kosher
kind of occult training and that is the 'accidental' one.
There is no technique, the technique makes itself, and you notice as
you learn these techniques that all the rest of the occult trainings
are caricatures of this 'accidental' one, in alchemy it sometimes has
been called 'following the footsteps of nature'.

How do you come to know this technique.
You look with unwavering attention (it is more like craving) for The
Infinite Everlasting Glory which is far beyond the world as we know
it.
Your attention (craving for light) draws its radiation near to you, to
be exactly, it draws it to your heart from where a new form of feeling
takes place in you, and this will happen as soon as this eternal dew
falls on the seed which is hidden there.
A new aim is born in which you focus your feelings differently, the
old motives fade while new ones arise with the increasing radiation.
From your heart it starts to spread to your head, clarifying your
former ideas skinning them from their forms, what remains becomes
directed upwards bundled together with your heart.
After this takes place the radiation starts to spread trough the rest
of your body touching organ after organ, changing the polarity of each
of them, until the whole of the body will be clarified.
At the end the Hermetic truth will be reached.
It is hermetic, so without material substance, in which the
not-material truth can exist freely.

Within this process, of which this is a very simple outline, you climb
trough the spheres of this world, you touch all the densities from the
grossest till the most subtle one, until you step over, leaving the
world behind (not unlike Dante when leaving Virgil in the purgatio).

This is the point in the process where you stop touching the dense
world, where you only touch the sphere which is from beyond this world
while you still can see them, but then it is as if you look trough a
window to the outside where there some storm is going on... it does
not touch you, you are not part of it, because your inside behind a
window.
All the time when you go trough the process you will go trough occult
fields, but you will try to touch them as little as possible, because
they will add too much weight to all the things you'll want to loose.

To a lot of people giving up their own will and personality seems to
be super-unapealing, so they make use of other ways in which they play
around a with the occult fields.
To my humble knowledge there is not one spark of truth in any of
those fields, they are nothing else then empty archetypes that try to
simulate the true laws of nature, so that they seem real.

These paths are of a lower nature, and the ones that rule over them
try to keep them occupied by followers which feed the sphere with
their output of lower energy.
In return they give them pleasure and some crooked form of
clairvoyance.

The path of 'not touching', gives an other form of clairvoyance, but
when compared with the former one then you notice that this last one
is voluntarily.
You can use it when you want, and in whatever way you want to use it,
or not use it when you don't want to use it.
Using it or not requires a lesser amount of energy then what you use
when blinking your eyes.

I have the feeling that all this clairvoyant business seems to be a
goal in itself, for which people care too much, and for which they try
too hard, and over which they become competitive.
Silly.

Furthermore, to come to alchemy, and to come back to occult training,
in alchemy the whole point lies in finding the seed, the droplet, or
whatever you will call it.
Searching for this by these forced occult means will be like using the
hot water-tap on your condenser, "that what you try to catch is there
but it will pass on without that you are able to hold it, because it
doesn't condense".
The only way can be found everywhere in alchemy and in every religion,
and starts with the desire to turn to something eternal, unchangeable,
clear and perfect, from a world where everything only exists for the
time being.

To find out truly, 'then rotate until you recognize', or with other
words, live until you understand that there is nothing in this life
which is worth to live for, apart from a way out from the long lasting
rotations.

douwe.

[email protected]

Sat May 04 12:40:23 1996
Subject: 0811 Secrecy is not meant to be!

From: Petra Gottlieb
Date: Sat, 4 May 1996 10:58:52 GMT

al4302 you write:
>>>...your picture may be different to mine while at the same stage. If I
tell you my next piece of the puzzle it may not be yours and this would lead
to confusion.<<<

How can it lead to confusion when we both work on the same picture? As it is
meant to be! The Universal picture which is there (a priory) unaltered ever
since time began? The picture of creation that was painted by our ONE CREATOR.

I think the difficulty lies in the fact that there came ONE CHRIST, who
talked about this universal picture, but after Him we painted 10 different
pictures, established and still keep insisting on 10 different churches.
It's the same with the world religions. THERE CAN ONLY BE "ONE" TRUTH -
"ONE" RELIGION (ON EARTH AS IT IS IN HEAVEN!)
I am waiting for that day!

Just say, you and I came to the realization that there can only be THAT ONE
UNIVERSAL PICTURE, we both work on it, and try to put it together, and I say
to you: I have this piece missing on the treatise of the elements, and you
happen to have this piece already, would you hide it from me? What possible
"good" reason could you have to hide it from me?
---
Petra Christiane Gottlieb
[email protected]
---
WO KEIN LIEB, DA IST KEIN KUNST! (Paracelsus)
WITHOUT LOVE THERE IS NO ART!

Sat May 04 21:30:45 1996
Subject: 0812 Is Occult Training advisable

From: Petra Gottlieb
Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 03:50:50 GMT

To Pat Zalewski's comment on the lecture: Is Occult Training advisable, I
will only say: The Light shines in the Darkness, but the Darkness does not
want to perceive it.
---
Petra Christiane Gottlieb
[email protected]
---
WO KEIN LIEB, DA IST KEIN KUNST! (Paracelsus)
WITHOUT LOVE THERE IS NO ART!

Mon May 06 09:50:35 1996
Subject: 0813 Klossowski de Rola

From: Petra Gottlieb
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 09:38:19 GMT

George, you write:>>>I wonder if it would be worth the trouble of someone
out there to tell us whether this book represents pearls or warmed over
dung...<<<

Have a look at site: http://www.levity.com/alchemy/crownint.html
You find Adam McLean's Introduction to "The Crowning of Nature" which
starts, and I quote:

"The impulse that led to my publishing this book(The Crowning of Nature)
began in the early 1970's, when I first noticed some enigmatic illustrations
in John Read's PRELUDE TO CHEMISTRY. Some years later, when I saw a fuller
set of these illustrations in Stanislas Klossowski de Rola's THE SECRET ART
OF ALCHEMY, I knew that here lay one of the most profound works of
Alchemical symbolism."

THANK YOU EVER SO MUCH, ADAM, FOR PUTTING THIS FINE WORK ON YOUR WEB SITE.
IT HAS BECOME A PIECE OF ART WITH THE DRAWINGS YOU PRODUCED. I WILL FOR EVER
CHERISH IT.

---
Petra Christiane Gottlieb
[email protected]
---
WO KEIN LIEB, DA IST KEIN KUNST! (Paracelsus)
WITHOUT LOVE THERE IS NO ART!

Mon May 06 09:50:55 1996
Subject: 0814 Books by Klossowski de Rola

From:Josh
Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 15:29:43 -0700

Some very nice plates (both B&W and color) of alchemical manuscript
illustrations, along with more commonly reproduced engravings (eg Mylius'
Philosophia Reformata). Personally, I find de Rola's text rather unhelpful,
but the book is mostly illustrations. Cost me all of two quid when I found
it in one of the Leicester Square bookshops -- can't really complain!

** --> By the way, I only just noticed that de Rola includes parts of a
manuscript which he attributes to "Johannes Andreae, 15th century." Could
this be a mistake for Johann Valentin Andreae (b. 1586, not "fifteenth
century"), of "Christian Rosencreuz" notoriety? Or did J.V. really have a
15th c. alchemist as a namesake?

>*I wonder if it would be worth the trouble of someone out there to tell us
>whether this book represents pearls or warmed over dung...
>
> AUTHOR: Klossowski de Rola, Stanislas.
>TITLE: Alchemy : the secret art / Stanislas de Rola Klossowski.
>PUBLISHED: New York, N.Y. : Thames and Hudson, 1985, c1973.
>DESCRIPTION: 128 p. : 193 ill. (33 col.) ; 28 cm.
>SERIES: Art and imagination
>SUBJECTS: Alchemy

Mon May 06 09:51:06 1996
Subject: 0815 On Secrecy

From: Petra Gottlieb
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 03:14:07 GMT

One final word before I withdraw...

Ever since Pat Zalewski's sacrilegious response to my posting "Is Occult
Training Advisable"... which was a lecture I took from the Grail Message,
and warned against the "artificial" training undertaken by the "physical
brain", which by its nature is restricted to the lower and inferior realms
of thought forms as against the much higher "spiritual" realms which can
only be reached by "natural" evolution (Purgatory) and rebirth in Spirit,...
I have come to the conclusion as Douwe put it: >>> that truth rushed out,
in fact, might fall on an unsuitabe ground, and is short lived because it
is recreated and debased by the wrong perceptions and understanding of
others <<<

You see, Pat Zalewski was not satisfied with just "Take it or leave it", she
had to pick up dirt and throw it, without putting forward even "ONE" point
for further discussion - sheer abuse it was, and I am still shaken to the
bone by it. It felt like a VIOLATION OF SOMETHING SACRED. But in future I
will not allow this to happen again. I SHALL NOT CAST THE PERLS...It was a
hard lesson to learn.

---
Petra Christiane Gottlieb
[email protected]
---
WO KEIN LIEB, DA IST KEIN KUNST! (Paracelsus)
WITHOUT LOVE THERE IS NO ART!

Mon May 06 11:07:02 1996
Subject: 0816 Johannes Andreae

Josh writes

> By the way, I only just noticed that de Rola includes parts of a
>manuscript which he attributes to "Johannes Andreae, 15th century." Could
>this be a mistake for Johann Valentin Andreae (b. 1586, not "fifteenth
>century"), of "Christian Rosencreuz" notoriety? Or did J.V. really have a
>15th c. alchemist as a namesake?

'Johannes Andreae' seems to have been quite a common name during this period. In my bibliographic research, looking through catalogues of manuscripts, this name often appears.
The British Library manuscript Sloane 2560, is one of the earliest copies of the 'Pretiosissimum Donum Dei' which has a series of flasks in which the alchemical work takes place. A version in English, also from the British Library, is included on the Alchemy Web site.

Adam McLean

Tue May 07 10:00:55 1996
Subject: 0817 On Secrecy

From: joshua geller
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 07:03:35 -0700

petra writes:

> Ever since Pat Zalewski's sacrilegious response to my posting "Is Occult
> Training Advisable"... which was a lecture I took from the Grail Message,
> and warned against the "artificial" training undertaken by the "physical
> brain", which by its nature is restricted to the lower and inferior realms
> of thought forms as against the much higher "spiritual" realms which can
> only be reached by "natural" evolution (Purgatory) and rebirth in Spirit,...

personally, I have never seen the point in making a seperation between
the spiritual and the physical. it leads to all sorts of wierd things,
like crusades and fascism.

josh

Tue May 07 10:01:08 1996
Subject: 0818 On Secrecy -Reply

Date: Mon, 06 May 1996 11:10:57 -0400
From: Gilbert Arnold

Sometimes statements AND responses generated by well meaning people
will grate on someones nerves. Petra felt strongly about an occult training
issue, and wrote about it; Pat felt strongly about the write up and
responded to it; well, at least he read it. I did not read either, because the
issue involved was of no immidiate interest to me. That's life.

Somehow a discussion resulting partly from my candid write-up on mercury
work resulted in a discussion about secrecy and someone telling me that I
did not know what I was talking about (that being the definition of exoteric;
esoteric being the case that the other person does not know what you are
talking about either). This may have had a beneficial effect. And all this
generated by well meaning people. Just remember what the road to hell is
paved with, and who marches on it. Pat and Petra, thank you for your
contributions.

Blessings,

+Gilbert

Tue May 07 10:01:16 1996
Subject: 0819 On Secrecy

From: tim scott
Date: Mon, 06 May 1996 09:02:49 -0700

I cannot resist adding my (unsolicited) $0.02 here...

> From: Petra Gottlieb
>
> One final word before I withdraw...
>
> Ever since Pat Zalewski's sacrilegious ...

!!! I had to read this sentence a few time before it really sank in that
the word "sacrilegious" was used. Whatever the value of the essay, I hardly
think that it should be accorded the status of sacred writ.

> ... response to my posting "Is Occult Training Advisable"... which was a
> lecture I took from the Grail Message,...

[...snip...I have no idea what the "Grail Message" is...]

> I have come to the conclusion as Douwe put it: >>> that truth rushed out,
> in fact, might fall on an unsuitabe ground, and is short lived because it
> is recreated and debased by the wrong perceptions and understanding of
> others <<<
>
> You see, Pat Zalewski was not satisfied with just "Take it or leave it", she
> had to pick up dirt and throw it, without putting forward even "ONE" point
> for further discussion

Sometimes, in "calling a spade a spade" as we Yanks so pithily put it, persons
find so little value and so much wrong-headedness in something that to rip it
apart further seems a waste of time. For instance, some of the readers of this
forum may be familiar with the books by "Ishbel" published by Llewellyn. They
are of such execrable quality, and so idiotic, that it is not really necessary
for anyone who's studied occultism for more than a few years to critique it
in detail. Someone once wrote "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes
your time and annoys the pig."

> sheer abuse it was, and I am still shaken to the bone by it. It felt like a
> VIOLATION OF SOMETHING SACRED. But in future I will not allow this to
> happen again.

I don't mean to ridicule you or what you appear to hold sacred. But the
Internet is a rough and tumble place, where people of all imaginable beliefs,
from SubGenii to Scientologists to fanatic fundamentalists of every stripe
debate, argue, agree and throw the occasional bomb.

For my part, I find this roiling stew of passionate opinions stimulating and
challenging. It is not a place for those easily offended. Please try not to
take disagreement so seriously. I find Pat Z's opinions well formed, and his
experience and study in the fields of magic and alchemy are a matter of
published record. Perhaps it is true that he should have given an instance or
two where he thought the essay was particularly wrong.

As far as "never allowing this to happen again": you can indeed prevent your
ideas from ever again being attacked...as long as you never hold them up for
challenge.

> I SHALL NOT CAST THE PERLS...It was a hard lesson to learn.

But if you don't cast the perls...how will you write your cgi scripts? (Sorry,
a little computer nerd humor there.)

If "Truth" with a capital "T" is so weak that a swipe like Pat's can wound
it--then it is not a very robust "Truth", in my opinion.

> WO KEIN LIEB, DA IST KEIN KUNST! (Paracelsus)
> WITHOUT LOVE THERE IS NO ART!

No need to SHOUT, especially about LOVE!!!

On Alchemy: The latest discovery in my researches about the early 20th
Century alchemists, Richard and Isabella Ingalese: I just learned this week
that in 1919 they, with about 11 others, entered into a legal agreement to
form a community on a 400 acre parcel of land in rural San Diego to be called
"PARACELSIA." Although it appeared this never happened, since 1940 there has
been a spiritual retreat on that property aligned with what I would call
"metaphysical Christianity."

More to come in future...

With best regards,
Tim Scott

Tue May 07 10:01:25 1996
Subject: 0820 On Secrecy

From: Clay Holden
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 10:56:00 -0800

Petra Gottlieb wrote:

>Ever since Pat Zalewski's sacrilegious response to my posting "Is Occult
>Training Advisable"... which was a lecture I took from the Grail Message,

...to which you gave us a pointer to an http address offering to sell us
the three-volume set, and then proceeded to quote a good 18 inches from it,
which is certainly in violation of copyright (current as of 1995 according
to their web-site) unless you have permission to reprint in writing from
the author, and in any case is *not* a contribution of your own work or
thoughts to this forum.

If I wanted to read the book (from which you have quoted extensively and
continuously), I would buy it, instead of having to manually delete your
excerpts. Same for the "Kybalion". It's a readily available volume (even in
my own library), and not very interesting in any case.

As to branding Pat's response as "sacrilegious", I'm afraid that is very
much your own opinion, based on ideas of religion that I doubt all of us
share. For my part, I have found Pat's postings to the Alchemy forum to be
consistently interesting and on-topic since it was formed, an observation
which I cannot make for yours.

>You see, Pat Zalewski was not satisfied with just "Take it or leave it", she
>had to pick up dirt and throw it, without putting forward even "ONE" point
>for further discussion - sheer abuse it was, and I am still shaken to the
>bone by it. It felt like a VIOLATION OF SOMETHING SACRED.

Unless things have changed greatly while I wasn't looking, this forum is
not set up for "take it or leave it". It is a *forum*, and thus by
definition designed for *discussion*, not mere acceptance or rejection. He
has as much right to express his disagreement with the opinions you posted
(which, by the way, he correctly attributed and directed to the author -
not yourself) as anyone else here. And in fact, he *did* make more points
of his own in that short posting than you did in your very long one.

>....But in future I
>will not allow this to happen again. I SHALL NOT CAST THE PERLS...It was a
>hard lesson to learn.

So you finally got the message about "casting pearls before swine"? A pity
you demonstrate your "understanding" by casting mud at Pat - exactly what
you accuse him of doing.

In the future I will not waste my time reading your postings.

Clay

Clay Holden
( - )
( + )
"Super caelestes roretis aquae: __:__
Et terra fructum dabit suum." |
-John Dee /^|^\

Tue May 07 10:01:35 1996
Subject: 0821 'Le Mutus Liber... parle' by Oscar UZCATEGUI

Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 21:58:31 +0100
From: Christian , Daniel Dumolard

At 09:41 24/04/1996 +0000, you wrote:
>>The Mutus Liber Speaks or the Mute Book Speaks by
>>Oscar Uzcategui is a book of 15 alchemical plates that describe the sexual
>>alchemy. It is of European origin, it may have been written in Latin
>Does anyone know this book?
>Adam McLean

Dear Adam, in reply to your message 0768 :
1)My message in English. 2)The same in French.

The 15 original plates of the "Book without speaking" were made by P. Savouret
in 1677, and published in the French town La Rochelle.
Recently, a mexican, Mr. Oscar Uzcategui, published this "Mutus" with a
commentary, in Spanish, with this title "Habla el Mutus Liber".
In 1982, a frenchman, Roger Nemoz, certainly Osca Uzcategui's disciple, made a
French translation of this book, with this title "The Mutus Liber (Mute
Book)... speaks". Living in Grenoble (south-east of France), he published
with a printer of his town, Mr . Mancini, 400 copies of his book. The book
was sold 85 Francs.
Today R. Nemoz lives 100 km away.
The book contains 100 pages, and is on a 30x22 centimetre size,
At the 5th page, the title becomes :"the mute book of alchemy, disclosed by
the Gnose".
At the 9th page, Nemoz writes, as dedication : "To the glory of our holy
gourou, Samael Aun Weor". This one was the Oscar Uzcategui's master. Oscar
was "world instructor of the gnostic international association for the human
research, whom center lives in Mexico".
The alchemy, described in this book, is effectively a tantric alchemy, where
the mortar and the pillar become the sex of the man and the woman, where the
materia prima becomes the sperm of the man.
One of the targets, if I good understand, is learning to tame this subtle
fire, this Kundalini !
If anyone wants to contact Mr. Nemoz, i can give him his postal address (on
private E-mail)

But, if you know the french, this following lines are better:

Les 15 planches originales du "Mutus Liber" ont ete faites par Pierre
Savouret en 1677, et publiees dans la ville francaise de La Rochelle.
Il y a quelques annees, un mexicain, Oscar Uzcategui, publia ce "Mutus" avec
un commentaire, en langue espagnol, sous le titre "Habla el Mutus Liber".
En 1982, un francais, Roger Nemoz, certainement disciple d'Oscar Uzcategui,
a fait une traduction francaise de ce livre, sous le titre "Le Mutus
Liber... parle".
Habitant Grenoble (sud-est de la France), il le fit editer chez un imprimeur
de sa ville, Mr. Mancini. Il y en eu 400 exemplaires. Le livre etait vendu
85 Fr. Aujourd'hui R. Nemoz habite 100 km plus au sud.
Le livre , d'un format de 30 cm par 22 cm, fait 100 pages.
En page 5, le titre devient : "Le livre muet de l'alchimie devoile par la
gnose".
En page 9, il est ecrit en dedicace : "A la gloire de notre saint gourou,
Samael Aun Weor". Celui-ci fut le maitre d'Oscar Uzcategui. Oscar etait
"instructeur mondiale de l'association gnostique internationale de
recherches anthropologiques, dont le siege est a Mexico".
L'alchimie decrite est effectivement une "alchimie" tantrique, ou le mortier
et le pilon deviennent le sexe de l'homme et de la femme, ou la matiere
premiere devient la semence de l'homme.
Un des buts, ai-je compris, est d'apprendre a domestiquer ce feu subtil,
cette Kundalini !

Si quelqu'un souhaite contacter M. R. Nemoz, je peux lui donner son adresse
postale.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Christian et Daniel DUMOLARD
6, rue de la Liberte
38000 Grenoble, France
(+33)76443992
E-mail [email protected]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tue May 07 10:01:43 1996
Subject: 0822 On Secrecy

From: Pat Zalewski
Date: Tue, 7 May 96 08:11 NZST

>Petra

Saying what I think about someone elses occult mayanderings is hardly abuse.
I did not want to debate this issue because I feel it is out of place in
this forum. This is for alchemy not about quasi religious debates and that
is exactly what it would turn into. Frankly I am surprisd you swallowed what
you posted. But if that is your belief then all the power to you but it is
not mine and cuts against the core of my beliefs and also puts alchemical
theory on a different footing. By the way I am male (last time I looked) and
not female.

Tue May 07 10:01:52 1996
Subject: 0823 Ingalese update again...

From: tim scott
Date: Mon, 06 May 1996 17:50:49 -0700

I have updated my article on the Ingaleses with the latest discoveries.
You can ftp it directly from

ftp://ftp.vigra.com/special/tims/ingalese.txt

The research is not done yet, but I wanted to integrate in my latest
findings (e.g., at least of the fact that the Ingaleses *did* die) and
credit some of the people who have helped and encouraged me.

Anyone is free to copy or distribute it, and Adam is invited in
particular to update the copy he has on his WWW site with the new
edition.

Best regards,
Tim Scott

Tue May 07 10:02:01 1996
Subject: 0824 Teachers, Masters and the Individual

From: Alec Gathercole
Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 11:27:02 GMT

One has to accept criticism when attempting to express an alternative to
opinions held by sincere, sensible persons even though the statement is made
in love from the bottom of the heart. There is a great deal of contradiction
of opinion as to what alchemy actually is.

May I start by stating IMO, "all men are equal", and then say "all humanity
is not equal". These are very different statements of fact. Man as mankind
is a moron. He is asleep and not conscious of humanity. His activities are
distinctly survival orientated being primarily concerned with gaining
sustenance for the physicality. He is encapsulated by the work ethic adopted
in his environment which allows sustenance to be reasonably assured. He
becomes fascinated by the facilities which become his trade, be it
agriculture, mechanics, techniques, professions or muses. To be in the top
echelon of his speciality gives a sense of certainty that sustenance will be
attained. This create an almost hypnotic, mechanical scheduling of
time-consuming responsibilities and is autistic avaricious and selfish.

If man wishes to become humane he has to take time out from the above
situation, but where does he go? Which turn does he take? Esoteric
considerations invariable are indicated as a means of finding the higher
awareness or the true self. This is no easy task as there are numerous
avenues for consideration. The obvious ones are religious groups, theosophy,
gurus, fakirs, astrologers, and numerous new age groups many of which
require large down payments for their advice.
Let it be clearly recognised that all of these systems have been of immense
value to mankind in their efforts to alter our status from animal man to
human. Unfortunately each declare their methodology superior and necessary
be it dogma, ritual, meditation, posture, or procedure.

We who are striving to become alchemists need to be sure of our objectives
to obtain freedom from the restrictions placed on us having been raised in a
society where social and parental attitudes have held these systems in
respect. For those in the early stage of their development some clarity of
direction is essential. Perhaps the following will be of some additional
help in this situation.

All humanity is not equal and there are three distinct levels into which to
divide the spectrum of evolution from mankind to sage, master or alchemist.
The divisions are named exoteric, mesothetic, and esoteric. To briefly
outline these areas the following is presented:

Exotericism is separated from homo erectus and encompasses all those areas
previously alluded to as natural religion and other avenues of
consideration. These are on the outer edge or beginning of evolution because
of the level of consciousness and the conscience within the propounders of
these activities who have been merely commissioned for their role by
adherents to the doctrine and not ordained as claimed which is the
prerogative of the Divine Grace only.

These presenters fastidiously control adherents by fear, superstition or
belief about the after effects of this life and the benefits to be gained
during this transitory existence as a physical entity. Salvation, they say,
is to be gained by meditation, contemplation, consideration and abstinence.
Unfortunately these activities reach a plateau which is very hard to
penetrate as the higher echelon of exotericism are of the opinion that they
themselves are already esoteric. This is far from the truth, and it is so
too for many sophisticated self acclaimed wise ones who are little more than
intellectual academics.

It has been a progression of the activities of all living beings from
Geborah to Chesod. The most important task of humanity is the mesothetic
stage as this is the exhaustive work of bridging the abyss, for it has to be
done by the individual himself. It is an impossible task without the inner
revelation, the growth of conscience, the inner voice yet still very quiet.
Sacred teachings are necessary both in the oriental and occidental systems.
There are many teachers willing and able to help whose mind may or may not
be in a physical entity. Many seek a teacher sometimes parting with large
sums paid to likely looking characters, but all to no avail. It is the
character of the individual which attracts the teacher to the pupil when he
is good and ready, and while each may walk a distance to meet, it is still
the individual who must be the worker, as an ant, who will be guided by one
who knows the way, not as the case in the exoteric stage where contemplation
is considered enough effort.

It must not ever be considered that the teacher is important, for it is the
teachings and the use made of them by the aspiring one. True knowledge comes
from empirical experience which enhances reason, the only substance that
will build a bridge over the abyss to Binah where faith (as distinct from
belief), understanding and revelation is sanctified.
Once this has been accomplished there is no need for the teacher again.
Revealed religion, guidance by revelation is the sanctuary of esotericism,
evolution, alchemy and all will know the same.

In brief, this is my opinion. What do you think?

Auris (Alec)

Tue May 07 10:02:11 1996
Subject: 0825 Regarding Occult Training

From: Alec Gathercole
Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 13:48:02 GMT

Petra wrote:
>This lecture is taken from the Grail Message...
>Is Occult Training advisable

In my opinion the word Occult has two distinctly different connotations. In
alchemical/esoteric work it indicates something withheld from an individual
considered not developed to that level of understanding. The material spoken
of here would be sacred and of a divine nature withheld only for the safety
of the individual concerned. For not all information is for all people at
any given time. Development of the latent talents within each individual
should be undertaken and is a gradual process of revelation as anyone of
long association with our work knows. That appears to be the gist of the
Grail Message as a central theme.
The other aspect of Occultism has association with witchcraft, sorcery,
narcotics, orgies and employs ritual, black magic, the calling in of spirits
by necromancy, by cards, boards, hypnosis, trance and other artificial
practices which produce fantasy or ecstasy which artificially stimulates
clairvoyance, clairaudience and like effects which are only capable of
temporary acquirement and leave minds open to evil tendencies. The Grail
Message was in reference to this which may become evident on closer scrutiny
and prove to be sound advice.

I think generally we do not use the word Occult in our work because of its
more common association with voodoo-type activities. The affirmative part of
the lecture commences with "In this category are those swimmers", and ends
"He had the freedom to decide before hand", but does not openly state the
talents to be developed.
I feel sure the Paracelsus College could not ever have been accused of
inducing as describe in the later part of the lecture.

It is unfortunate that these misunderstandings occur as most of us attempt
to help in a friendly supportive manner. There is difficulty with the
written word as it becomes lifeless and clinical whereby we can flex it to
fit into our present way of thinking.
For those participating in our work it is obvious that our
psyche/soul/intellect/mind/consciousness/conscience is ever expanding and
therefore our way of thinking and our point for viewing from is also forever
being relocated as we scramble up life's highway. There are great minds
working here each at their present reasonable level. As we move up others
will follow if they see in those ahead a virtue they would wish to acquire
for themselves.

Please be patient and let each of us move at our own pace.
That is my opinion. Tell us yours.

Auris (Alec)

Tue May 07 10:02:21 1996
Subject: 0826 The Philosopher's Stone

From: Alec Gathercole
Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 14:53:46 GMT

On 0799 posting al4302 set Petra a question which I respond to having
resulted from my posting:
> I will ask you one question. Has anyone from the Paracelsus Research
>Centre ever completed the work? This includes Brother Albertus!
> No!

Why do you think that should be?
He clobbered me. I cannot answer in the affirmative to the first question
without starting an argument. Some people on the forum seem to be spoiling
for that.
The second question becomes irrelevant to me as I will make the following
statement in my opinion:

1) Frater Albertus laid a foundation which gives modern investigators a
holistic view of a subject which was taboo 30-40 years ago.

2) He instructed numerous people in unfamiliar subjects such as Astrocyclic
Pulsations, Oral QBL, spagyrics relevant to vegetable, mineral and animal
kingdoms.

3) He expounded the trinity of body, soul and spirit in the face of natural
religion and identified them in laboratory procedures

4) He lectured in philosophical subjects by oral tradition, a method
virtually lost to the world in modern times and still little understood.

5) He assisted many to identify a purpose in life for themselves by
understanding who they, also why they are and why they are who they are.

6) He gave an explanation of the cosmos, its fundamental laws, the energies
both mental and physical extant within it, how they affect us, and why we
should become familiar with them as tools for assisting us to fulfil the
objectives set for us when granted our physical vehicle for this duration.

7) He taught the true purpose of alchemy, also known as evolution, how to
find our destiny (karma) and the work we needed to do.

8) He helped enhance our ability to purify our body, spirit and soul, all
necessary to tune ourselves to higher vibrations.

9) He indicated how, if we paid less attention to our autistic physical
self, we could spend time developing those latent talents within us, which
were laying dormant, into their former pristine glory.

10) He illustrated personal sacrifice by example and the necessity for it.

11) He exemplified how Divine Grace communicated with mankind and visa-versa

12) He understood the laws of nature, how nature itself was encapsulated
within the body of the several kingdoms, how to free it from its bondage by
domestic procedures and so easily that any uncomplicated junior would have
the strength to accomplish the task, the uses to which the products could be
put.

13) He encouraged us to study carbon and its ramifications in the animal body.

14) He provide instruction in menstruums for extracting , and matrixes for
cultivating in all kingdoms.

15) He awakened some from states of slumbering stupidity into active
evolutionist.

There are many other tasks that he undertook as a teacher.
One thing he did not do was exhibit a philosopher's stone or indicate having
accomplished that goal.
I, too, would take that stance if ever it became my lot to possess such, as
I would not wish to place my family or friends at risk by it being known
that they were acquainted with one who knew all of the secrets of nature.
There are those in society who, being avaricious and ruthless in their
willingness to freeload their way to opulence.

While I myself may not have consummated all of the tasks set out I willingly
assert my opinion that he has completed much work with many innovative
attributes, was philosophical, sagacious, evolutionary or alchemic in
esoteric work.

I might ask, does al4302 have the P.S.? I consider it a lesser part of the
work and merely a token like a gold medal to an athlete.
In my opinion Faith and Belief are as different as chalk and cheese. While
belief is a proposition unsubstantiated by empirical knowledge, Faith has
association with understanding and is imbued on us like dew on the grass,
from a divine source.

TIMO. What is yours?

Auris (Alec)

Tue May 07 14:47:57 1996
Subject: 0827 FRENCH: Roger Caro

Date: Tue, 07 May 1996 10:46:55 +0200
From: thierry ducreux

Je me posais la question sur la difference d'obtention de la
quitessence (medecine universelle) entre la voie de la stibine
(dujol-schwaller-champagne-canseliet) et celle du cinabre
(mgr CARO).
En effet le mode d'obttention n'a rien de similaire :
- caro : obtention de la quitessence a la 3em multiplication.
(avec la pierre qui devient le vrai prophete a la premiere
multiplication)
- dujol : par issolution de la pierre au rouge ou au blanc.

Avez vous des remarques ou idees ?
Thierry.

Wed May 08 08:51:19 1996
Subject: 0828 Secrecy-Why argue . It hurts.

Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 00:02:00 -0400
From: photopro

Why argue back and forth? State what you believe to be the Truth and
let that speak to your heart and anyone else's heart that can
recognize it. There is no good and bad and somewhere there is no right
and wrong when used in that sense. So if someone refuses to share, they
are not ready to do so and you are not ready to receive their
information (perhaps you are lucky for it just may have been a false
start for you where you are at that moment).

If someone shares and the "other" can not recognize it, the seed is
planted and may blossom at the designated point of time or die as will
those who are not "real" but lessons for those who are! Information may
be foundational for your work but inner wisdom, striving experience,
and balance are the projective fuel while working toward Purpose.

You are not balanced when struggling competitively and arguing with a
fellow colleague on the Path. Eyes to see/ Ears to hear-one must be
ready or they are deaf and blind on the Mystical Path! Let go. Duality
exists where one can be right on one plane and in error with the same
answer or solution on another plane of consciousness/existence.

If you are only 4 foot tall, you can only see from that perspective.
Someone else may be 10 ft. tall. There are many considerations.

LUX
Wisa

"All there is, is Love."
"Truth is the order of the Universe"
[email protected]
Wisa

Wed May 08 08:51:52 1996
Subject: 0829 Petra

Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 00:41:18 -0400
Subject: Petra
From: photopro

Dear Petra,
You are brilliant and I thoroughly enjoy almost all of your messages.
The following quote tho' grates because when someone speaks for God
through the intellect and not as God speaking through that receptive
vessel, I feel like organized religion or some cultist is telling me
what to believe and indicating that I can not do it for myself.
i.e.
>TRUE REVELATION AND NO SECRECY IS MEANT TO
>BE !!! God wants us to know exactly what is in front of us, so that we can
>actually tread on and follow the path.

How many of us have a map of our path? A guarentee of what is to be!
History doesnt show that and that is the least of it. Read - St. John
of the Cross - for an example. And the Christ Story (well he might have
been in on it.) There is this thing called Temperance. You might have a
clue for you will be tested in the arena of your own weaknesses and
fears but you will be tested and it will be a shock and "how you take
the blow" will score points (a matter of speaking and reversible for
the most part.)

Yes, we create our own worlds and yes, I pray that I can float
peaceably up in a condition of well being and fullness of great love
and wonder BUT There is also this condition of detachment and The
Tempering Angel will help you do it one way or the other.Remember that
The Fool has only Truth packed into his wallet to get through the "eye
of the needle".Nothing else, nothing needed.

So maybe you want to know exactly what is in store for you and maybe
you must be "ready to know" to survive, for it can be hard but although
it feels like it, it is not unendurable as one gets what one can
endure. It has been said that the higher and more ready the Adept is,
the longer and harder the trip at this point of the "Job" experience
but the more likelihood of Mastery attained in that so-called lifetime.

I just don't think it works like your quotation above. I've read it, I
am seeing it happen to a special friend of mine. There is a stage of
Sorrow on the rise of ascension. Are you ready for that? God is you.
Not as you are now but as you are becoming in fullfillment of your
potential. How many people could take that info in advance if not
ready? This is a process. "You" are a process. You take your ritual
steps, do your work and with The Grace of God you are bumbed up and
become Wiser and closer to The Memory of Perfection and your True
Identity.

LUX
Wisa

"All there is, is Love."
"Truth is the order of the Universe"
[email protected]
Wisa

Wed May 08 08:52:00 1996
Subject: 0830 Russ House's Statement

Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 00:58:01 -0400
From: photopro

> The soil is prepared with the
>>>ingrediants of Our Art

In the lab of humanity let it be known that the soil is YOU and the Art
is your work on the Path. YOU are the work of your own art in process.
You are the soil to be seeded. You are Earth itself.

Wisa

"All there is, is Love."
"Truth is the order of the Universe"
[email protected]
Wisa

Wed May 08 22:55:36 1996
Subject: 0831 Queries

From: Jon Sharp
Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 16:26:00 +0000

I would be grateful for any suggestions on texts that would be useful as a
path into alchemical study. I have a strong interest in cabbalistic
materials and also in the possibility of seeking truth as continually valid
pursuit in spite of the general attack on such views by much contemporary
philosophy.

So far I have read one text The Hermetic Art which talks of the various
stages in the alchemical great work the red dragon, vulgar metals : real
metals et as processes of the soul rather than as physical operations on a
substance external to onesself - is this a generally held view or not?

Many Thanks - Jon 777

Jon Sharp
Administrative Assistant
School of Information Systems
Tel (01603) 592801
Email [email protected]

Wed May 08 22:55:46 1996
Subject: 0832 Plant Mutations

From: Clinton R. Armitage
Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 10:30:12 -0400

A present and probably ongoing interest which I have, has to do with
energies and how energies contribute to spontaneous transmutation (mutations ) in the plant kingdom as well as controlled Mental focusing of
energies in order to bring about predetermined mutations.

If anyone connected with the Forum has or is working in a similar manner
perhaps we could exchange thoughts.

It is necessary to add that I am neither scientist nor scholar so my
communications would be quite simple.

Interests in " The Secret Life of Plants " ( who's author recently left the
physical body ) and the Findhorn experiment in Scotland would probably be
compatible.

Kind regards,

Clinton Armitage
[email protected]

Wed May 08 22:55:54 1996
Subject: 0833 Regarding Occult Training

From: George Randall Leake III
Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 12:27:15 -0500

>From: Alec Gathercole
>Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 13:48:02 GMT
>In my opinion the word Occult has two distinctly different connotations. In
>alchemical/esoteric work it indicates something withheld from an individual
>considered not developed to that level of understanding. The material spoken
>of here would be sacred and of a divine nature withheld only for the safety
>of the individual concerned. For not all information is for all people at
>any given time. Development of the latent talents within each individual
>should be undertaken and is a gradual process of revelation as anyone of
>long association with our work knows. That appears to be the gist of the
>Grail Message as a central theme.

*this sounds muddled and confused. Perhaps you could elucidate using more
specific examples?

>The other aspect of Occultism has association with witchcraft, sorcery,
>narcotics, orgies and employs ritual, black magic, the calling in of spirits
>by necromancy, by cards, boards, hypnosis, trance and other artificial
>practices which produce fantasy or ecstasy which artificially stimulates
>clairvoyance, clairaudience and like effects which are only capable of
>temporary acquirement and leave minds open to evil tendencies. The Grail
>Message was in reference to this which may become evident on closer scrutiny
>and prove to be sound advice.

*interesting connections you make here; can you cite your source? It reads
an awful lot like a Reader's Digest article warning parents to shield their
children from Satanism, or even a bit like Pat Robertson's 1992 speech
condemning feminism.
*what do you mean by "witchcraft"? There are many versions of it, as there
are many of Christianity.
*"sorcery". How specific is that? Compare the OED definition to Eliphas
Levi's for starters and you'll see what I mean
*"narcotics". Here comes the yellow journalistic flavor that condemns the
writer. What are you talking about?
*"orgies". A little taste of Pat Robertson? The kind of logic along the
lines of masturbation leads to blindness
*"employs ritual"...like the Catholic Church? Somebody tell me, isn't a
wedding a ritual? Isn't the Super Bowl a ritual. This is a bit fatuous.
Perhaps you get your info from the movies? Perhaps you just saw "The
Craft"?
*"black magic"...is this a reference to voodoo or santeiria or something?
*"the calling in of spirits by necromancy"...this is a common kind of
phenomenom...many cultures around the world and through time have tried to
do this...alas Poor Yorick...please clarify...
*"cards"...tarot? There is an awful lot of ignorance in this area, let me
tell you. What next? You going to warn us that bridge is the work of the
Devil? Do you actually know anything about the origin of the tarot and its
ties to other trump games such as bridge?
* "hypnosis"?!...here you start to sound like you're condemning
spiritualism, oft-linked to some of these other ideas, but really not
having a whole lot to do with them
*"trance"...see above...what sort of trance? Cite some sources...
*"other artificial practices...etc..." who the hell do you expect will take
you seriously?
*finally, the coup de grace, "evil tendencies"...please tell us about the
nature of Evil. I see absolutely nothing in what you're warning about
that's inherently evil, largely because you're so vague. Unless one
considers illusion or ignorance evil.

>I think generally we do not use the word Occult in our work because of its
>more common association with voodoo-type activities.

*I certainly hope you don't play around with chemicals, and if you do, that
you apply at least a modicum of intelligence to your prepratory work.
"Voodoo-type activities"?! I suppose this includes listening to Mardi Gras
music, drinking Haitian rum, and/or strangling chickens?

The affirmative part of
>the lecture commences with "In this category are those swimmers", and ends
>"He had the freedom to decide before hand", but does not openly state the
>talents to be developed.
>I feel sure the Paracelsus College could not ever have been accused of
>inducing as describe in the later part of the lecture.

*after such a lead-in, how do expect me to keep a straight face? Some of us
are trying to take this seriously, believe it or not.

>It is unfortunate that these misunderstandings occur as most of us attempt
>to help in a friendly supportive manner. There is difficulty with the
>written word as it becomes lifeless and clinical whereby we can flex it to
>fit into our present way of thinking.

*how ironic. It seems that ignorance is the root of evil sometimes. I
honestly encourage you to not generalize about things you don't know about.
Though I will add this caveat--if you were being sarcastic with all that, I
take back what I said.

>For those participating in our work it is obvious that our
>psyche/soul/intellect/mind/consciousness/conscience is ever expanding and
>therefore our way of thinking and our point for viewing from is also forever
>being relocated as we scramble up life's highway.

*Far be it for you to lecture us on this! Take a swig of your own medicine
twice a day, buddy! Report back once you've at least read and comprehended
some Mircea Eliade and maybe Frances Yates next time before making such
startling generalizations about the "occult".

There are great minds
>working here each at their present reasonable level. As we move up others
>will follow if they see in those ahead a virtue they would wish to acquire
>for themselves.

*frankly, I think we all need to take a step back and reflect on ourselves
a bit, perhaps look at how out of control our egos may be

>Please be patient and let each of us move at our own pace.
>That is my opinion. Tell us yours.

*you got it. Too bad you did not post your email address. I apologize to
everyone else on the list for having to put up with my dressing down of
this poor soul. Feel free to contact me privately.

-G.Leake, 512-471-9117 [email protected]

"To be ignorant of what occurred before you were born is to remain always a
child."
-Cicero
"Oh age! oh letters! It is a joy to be alive!...Woe to you, barbarians!"
-Ulrich von Hutten, 1518, Poet Laureate of the German Empire

Wed May 08 22:56:15 1996
Subject: 0834 Book help

From: [email protected]
Date: Wed, 08 May 1996 16:00:26 +0000 (GMT)

Dear John,

Try 'Le Mystere des Cathedrales' by Fulcanelli (ISBN 0-914732-14-5).
Despite the title it's definitely an English edition.

If you're U.K based check out Watkins Books (0171-836 2182) - they usually
have a copy in stock.

Mike

Wed May 08 22:56:27 1996
Subject: 0835 Secrecy

From: dan hill
Date: Wed, 8 May 96 09:34:34 CDT

I for one would share any knowledge I might feel is tangible. The pupose of a forum is to share knowledge...at least I think so. If a person is really into secrecy, they would not really be able to particiapate. All they would do is prostrate generalit

I guess my main goal is to find truth. In alchemy, I want to remove the symbolic and find the actual steps and proccesses of the Great Work.

LVX,
dan

Wed May 08 22:56:36 1996
Subject: 0836 Book help

From: Diane Munoz
Date: Wed, 8 May 96 08:58 PDT

John asked:
>Can anyone help me locate accurate titles & copy of books:

>In English: Secrets of Cathedrals >Maybe by Fulcanelli

>Also a book called Philosophers Stone
>
I'm sure the Secrets of Cathedrals by Fulcanelli is available many
places... but I KNOW that it is available through RSE email address:
[email protected], as well as The Philosopher's Stone, which was written by
Colin Wilson. You can look at the Book catalogue they have available at

http://www.ramtha.com/products/books/index.html

They have quite a variety of books available

Diane

Diane Munoz
[email protected] or [email protected]

Wed May 08 22:56:48 1996
Subject: 0837 'Le Mutus Liber... parle' by Oscar UZCATEGUI

From: R. Brzustowicz
Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 09:08:58 -0700 (PDT)

I find in OCLC only one book attributed to Oscar Uzcategui (I haven't
tried all possible Uzcategui names, however) --

Author: Uzcategui, Oscar.
Title: 33 [ie. Treinta y tres] grabados de alquimia develados
Edition: 1 ed.
Pub. Info: Mexico : Diana, 1983
Year: 1983
Physical Descr: 175 p. : ill. ; 22 cm.
Notes: PUBLICATION TYPE: Book
Subject: Alchemy in art.
Subject: Gnosticism.
Subject: Symbolism in art.
Subject: Art and religion.
Subject: Prints.
ISBN: 9681315022

Could this be related? Or is it another thing entirely?

There are (interestingly) 72 items by Samael [sic] Aun Weor.

R Brzustowicz ([email protected])

Wed May 08 22:56:57 1996
Subject: 0838 Dew and alchemy

Date: Wed, 08 May 1996 19:11:49 +0000
From: JoelTetard

Call for information on *dew* properties

As you know certainly, dew is very important in Alchemy, mainly in the
Path of antimony (see Mutus Liber, Fulcanelli's and Canseliet's books,
for instance).

According to anciant alchemists, dew would be the first "vehicle" of the
*Spiritus Mundi* which would be the actual agent of transmutations.

According to some modern sources, dew is much complex than a simple
"water" would be supposed to be...

In fact, dew contains several chemical compounds coming from the
recation of atmosphere with water, form human activities (see acid
rains), even from cosmos (micro-meteors, fullerens etc.)...

Due to they strongly react with most of chemical compound used in
Alchemy, two of them would take an important place in alchemy:
- peroxyde hydrogene (H202)
- Ammonium nitrate (NH4+ NO3-)

I will much appreciate to receive more information concerning chemical
analysis (isotopic analysis would be the best !), chemical and physical
properties (optical mainly) and alchemical treatments of dew
(distillation and works on melting salts used in Alchemy, Antimony Path
mainly).

I'll would be interested to have rates of theses chemical compounds for
"european" dew. Analysis results would be different for american dew
(see acid rains problems).

Many thanks in advance for your kind help.

Joel Tetard. snail address :
20 rue de la Liberation,
Rueil-Malmaison.
F92500 France
Tel & Fax : +33 (01) 47 49 53 09.

Wed May 08 22:57:08 1996
Subject: 0839 FRENCH: WWW alchemy site

Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 21:44:19 +0200
From: J.Dauge

Pour les Amis francophones qui visitent mon site Web .

Ayant change de prestataire Internet voici ma nouvelle adresse:

http://myweb.worldnet.fr/~jed/homepage.html

Ce site sera en tres grande partie dedie a l Alchimie

vous y trouverez le texte integral de CYLIANI: Hermes devoile, ainsi que
les ouvrages composant ma bibliotheque; bien incomplet pour l' instant.

Amicalement
-----------------

J.Dauge : [email protected]

http://myweb.worldnet.fr/~jed/homepage.html

Thu May 09 08:49:36 1996
Subject: 0840 Alchemy in France : additions

Date: Thu, 09 May 1996 08:50:33 +0000
From: Joel Tetard

This is an update to my earlier post number 0777.

Two weeks ago I subscribed to the Alchemy forum and I proposed to Mr. A
McLean a short overview of Alchemy practices in France.

This is the result of a (very) quick research on this matter.
Obviously it is not complete and the greatest part of this information
would be perhaps known by most of you.

Please, excuse me for this and don't laugh at me for my bad English!!!

1 - RECENT BACKGROUND

This overview is based mainly on "Fulcanelli Devoille" written by
Genevieve Dubois (Dervy Publication, 91 bd Saint Germain, 75006 Paris)
which is a fairly good introduction to this matter.

During the greatest part of XIXth century until to the First WW there
was in France a great interest in alchemy as for Esoterism in
general. A significant number of writers (Victor Hugo, Balzac, for
instance), poets (Verlaine), scientists (Chevreul and Berthelot) coming
from all level of society, confessed to have a strong interest in this
Art.

Although Alchemy is more an individual involvement rather than a
collective practice several groups dedicated to this Art were
launched.

Among the most known of these groups we have to note the "Societe
Alchimique de France" , "l'Ecole hermetique" and the "Groupe
Independant d'Etudes Esoteriques".

We have to point out that some of these researches were not seen by
their promoters as traditional or "pure" alchemical works.

For instance Jollivet Castelot, who lead the Societe Alchimique de
France, spoke only of "hyperchemy" which is a way to obtain gold by
chemical ways. This is linked to the great number of alchemical
recipes named "petits particuliers" (see for instance Vigenere's
formula based on the over-melting of lead).

Most of these alchemical groups were linked to neo-rosicrucian
brotherhoods. Other groups would exists but we have no information
about them.

The First World War stopped the activities of these groups and ended
the first revival of Alchemy in France.

In 1926, "Les Mysteres des cathedrales", and "Les Demeures
Philosophales" in 1930, both signed by Fulcanelli, were published in
the complete indifference. The two books, in fact written by Canseliet
(1899-1982) who used the notes of his Master, were inscribed to a
mysterious "Heliopolis Brotherhood" ("Fraternite d'Heliopolis").

In the main time, Schwaller de Lubicz (1887-1962), mainly known for his
works on Egyptology, gathered a little group of friends (named "les
Veilleurs", i.e. "the
Watchers") and founded a kind of community dedicated to the Alchemy
near Saint-Moritz. This group stopped its activities in 1927 when
Schwaller married and moved in the south of France.

According to G. Dubois, Schwaller worked on alchemy with Jean-Julien
Champagne (a painter who was said to be the actual Fulcanelli. He did
the drawings of the two published books).

In 1937 Jacques Bergier met an alchemist who was said to be Fulcanelli
(born in 1839 according to E. Canseliet...). This man warned Bergier
against the researches on the atom which could be a danger for the
mankind.

In the maintime, Eugene Canseliet began to write several papers and
was more and more known as to be the only "official" Fulcanelli's
disciple. Some of these papers were collected and published in
"Alchimie" (1964).

In 1960 J. Bergier and Louis Pauwels wrote "le Matin des Magiciens"
which took an important place in the second revival of alchemy in
France. Bergier and Pauwels' book contributed to diffuse widely the
name of Fulcanelli.

Fulcanelli's "Mysteres des Cathedrales" was reprinted in 1964 with an
unexpected success.

"Les Demeures Philosophales" were reprinted in 1965, and were followed
by new books by Canseliet : "Mutus Liber" (1967), "L'Alchimie
expliquee sur ses textes classiques" which is his philosophical will
(1971), "trois anciens traites d'alchimie" (1971), "Alchimie" (reprinted
in 1978) and "l'hermetisme dans la vie de Swift et dans ses voyages"
(1983).

Canseliet's works were the starting point for new studies and a growing
number of books or papers on this subject . For instance, Atorene
published "le Laboratoire Alchimique" (Guy Tredaniel, Editions de la
Maisnie) in 1980 which is an important source concerning alchemy in
practice.

Up to his death in 1982, M. Eugene Canseliet was a guide for a new
generation interested by alchemy: some of his students will take an
important place in the French Alchemy during the 80's (for instance :
J. Laplace, Solazaref, P. Riviere, Atorene...).

2 - ALCHEMY IN FRANCE TODAY

Thanks to Canseliet, many people are now interested in Alchemy .

According to booksellers, providers in scientific equipment and some
other sources (dealers in crude ores for instance), practical Alchemy
would concern more or less 1000 persons in France. Some of French
"amoureux de Science" (i.e. lovers of alchemy) are said to working in
this Art on a "full-time" base and very a few would succeed the Eagles
of the Second Work, having the "Remora"...

The following groups are (or were) dedicated to the deferent sides of
alchemy : theory, speculation practice and spituality.

Please note I am not involved in any of these groups. I was just in
touch with some people who are (or where) linked to some of them. Due
to this fact, I am not able to provide details on the structure of
these groups. For this reason too I prefer to give only facts but no
subjective or personal comments on them.

2.1. - PHILOSOPHES DE LA NATURE:

Philosophes de la Nature was a non profit organisation created by Jean
Dubuis in 1979. They provided courses on Esoterism, Qabala, Alchemy
and Traditional medicine.

The teaching of alchemy was mainly based on Frater�Albertus (Richard
Riedel) and J Dubuis's works and is split in two parts : spagyry (i.e.
vegetal alchemy, mainly) and mineral alchemy.

The organisation organised meetings and practical works sessions and
provided lab wares and herbs at low prices to their members.

Philosophes de la Nature were mainly targeted at Spagyry and to the
"Path of amalgams" or Flamel's Path.

Due to internal troubles, the organisation suspended its activities in
1995.

Their last known address is 12 avenue Olivier, F92250 La
Garenne-Colombe

2.2. - FILIATION SOLAZAREF (or "Les Amoureux de Science").

Solazaref was previously known under the "artist-name" of Pierre
d'Ouche (i.e. "Stone from Ouche" an ancient mine of antimony ore).
Previously working as a Physicist, he was in close relationship with
E. Canseliet.

Early in the 80's he choose to be a potter, providing alchemical
materials such as retorts and crucibles.

About fifty persons decided to follow Solazaref and to live near Riom,
in the centre of France.
"Introitus ad Philosphorum Lapidem" published soon after the death of
Eugene Canseliet was dedicated to the Dry Path of antimony as taught by
Fulcanelli's disciple.

Other books followed concerning mainly the Breve Path which is said to
be in relation with Germanic and Celtic traditions. For their works in
this Path Solazaref companions use "strong" energies as solar heat,
explosives or lightning...

Unless their first works were dedicated to the "Dry Path of Stibnite",
the main known path in alchemy since Fulcanelli and Canseliet's
works, they claimed this path would be a snare build by freemasons and
Jews.

Due to their political position close to Lepen's Front National and
their attacks against some people writing in alchemy (Canseliet's
daughter, Caro's Church, and so on), they were strongly criticised.

Solazaref's filiation grew quickly (about 500 persons were more or
less in contact with them in Europe) and sub-groups were created in
Belgium, Italy and USA.

However, Solazaref's group seems to have split last year, some people
left the organisation and created a new one. This later group
seems to be targeted to the Northern Tradition and to have no relation
with alchemy.

The last known address of Solazaref's Filiation was : c/o Michel
Chalon, La Tour Serviat, F63410 Manzat.

2.3. - F.A.R.C. or CARO'S CHURCH:

During the 60's, the Temple Initiatique Alchimique d'Ajunta was
founded by Jean Deleuvre known also as Kamala-Jnan. (Note "Deleuvre"
sounds like a pseudonym... This name could be translated as "about the
Work"). A book was published with photographs showing the main steps of
the alchemical work (Cinabre Path).

After Deleuvre's death, Etienne Roger Caro became the new leader of this
group and changed the name of Temple of Ajunta into Freres Aines de la
Rose Croix (FARC). In 1973, the organisation decided to be "asleep" for
25 years in order to match with rosicrucian traditions (?).

In fact, in 1972, Etienne Roger Caro created a new organisation : the
Eglise Universelle de la Nouvelle Alliance. This later organisation
seems to have stopped alchemical practices since the death of Mr. Caro.

It is possible write to Daniel Caro (son of Roger Caro) and to order
some books published by Ajunta Temple. The address is :
Daniel Caro
Batiment D. Chambrun
270 avenue de Pessicart
06100 Nice

2.4. - SPAGY-NATURE:

This group is more dedicated to Spagyry following Paracelsus' books,
rather than Alchemy, even if some of the group worked with antimony
ore following the teaching of Fulcanelli and M. Canseliet.

Patrick Riviere is the leader of the group. According to his books
("Alchimie et Spagyry", Spagy-Nature would be linked to CHR+CHM which
seems to be a traditional neo-rosicrusian organisation.

Patrick Riviere published some books about the theory and practice of
alchemy and spagyry which could be an introduction to the actual
works.

Their last known address is : Spagy-Nature, c/o P. Riviere, Les
Soubadisses, F82100 Granvillar.

CONCLUSION

Other groups could exist certainly but I have no information on them.
In fact, most of French alchemists work alone now or have friendly but
informal relationships with their "colleagues".

"La Tourbe des Philosophes", a non profit and non periodic (indeed!)
publication, is an important but weak link between all friends of
Alchemy in France.

Due to the lack of articles, this review is now in real danger of
disappearing.

SO, PLEASE, SEND YOUR PUBLICATIONS, ARTICLES OR COMMENTS
ON NEW BOOKS TO THIS REVIEW !!! (even in English!)

You'll find this interesting review and send your papers (even in
English) at "La Table d'Emeraude" (see annexe for address).

ANNEXE : ADDRESSES

Most of the books given above would be available from the two
following booksellers :

La Table d'Emeraude
21 rue de la Huchette,
F75005 Paris.
Tel : +33 (01) 43 54 90 96.
Fax : +33 (01) 40 51 02 67)

Librairie du Graal
15 rue J-J Rousseau
75001 Paris
Tel : +33 (01) 42 36 07 60
Fax : +33 (01) 42 36 45 58
e-mail : [email protected]

Librairie du Graal is another good bookseller which provides books
related to alchemy. They published a quarterly catalogue, available by
e-mail, with a list of ancient books concerning alchemy and spagyry
and other matters (astrology, kabbala, etc.)

ADDITION TO THE FIRST VERSION OF THE TEXT :

Some other publications concerning Alchemy are available in France :

*CHRYSOPOEIA*
This journal is published by the Societe d'Etude de l'Histoire de
l'Alchmie linked to the French University (CNRS
45, rue Saint-Maure
F75011 Paris.
This journal publishes texts from manuscripts and out-of print books.

*LE CURIEUX DE NATURE*
- Petite encyclopedie des �tudes Philosophiques-
Jean Laplace was in touch with Canseliet and wrote several books on
Alchemy.
He published four "zines" concerning alchemy, spagyrie, egyptology and
medicine.
Each of them could be ordered from :
Jean Laplace, Marignaostr. 26, CH-4059 Bale, Switzerland.

Some other interesting adresses :

*l'Intersigne*
66 rue du Cherche-Midi
F75006 Paris
+33 (01) 45 44 24 54
Catalogue are available from this bookseller who deals old and rare
books on alchemy and related matters : sciences (chemistry, botanic,
etc.).

*Atlantis*
30 rue de la Marseillaise
F94300 Vincennes
This review was founded in 1926 by Paul Le Cour and was dedicated to the
study of Atlantis matters.
Although not realy "specialized" in Alchemy, Atlantis publishes
important issues on this matter wrote by Canseliet, and some of his
"disciples" : Ren� Alleau, Severin Battefroid, Guy Beatrice, etc.
The greatest part of Canseliet's book "Alchimie" came from articles
published in this review.

*3e millenaire*
B.P. 40
F75661 Paris Cedex 14
This review is published by a "non-profit organisation" dedicated to all
kinds of "New-Age" matters. A special issue (No 35) on Alchemy was
published recently.

In this issue I note two interesting papers :

- the first from Albert Cau provides a short introduction to his works
on Pitchblende.
- the second, by Jacques Trieli, is a (very) quick survey of the Cinabre
Path as shown by Caro (see above). Some interesting pictures are
published too.

Thu May 09 13:25:54 1996
Subject: 0841 French-texts

From: Mikhail Malt
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 09:15:04 +0100

Hy!!

Anyone knows were can I find Alchemy French texts (in French)???

Thanks

Mikhail

Thu May 09 20:53:25 1996
Subject: 0842 Dew and alchemy

From: Rawn Clark
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 14:34:56 -0400

I realize this is totally irrelevant to Joel's information request, but what
the hell....has risking irrelevancy ever deterred me before? ;) At least
it's alchemical...

Some Particulate-Water Thoughts:

Earth of water: Hail, Ice, Snow.-- downward tending & solid.
Water of water: Rain.-- downward tending & fluid.
Air of water: Fog, Mist, Cloud.--upward tending when heated,
downward tending when cooled.
Fire of water: Dew.-- upward tending.

*********
Earth of water, holds the particular ability to capture the light of either
sun or moon within a crystalline matrix, multiplied by the individuality of
each falling crystal.

Water of water, is much more generalized, and works to spread the celestial
influences it carries. It penetrates and nourishes the Earth.

Air of water, is a state of great activity and movement. Each particulate is
circulated and exposed to the celestial forces of sun and/or moon, absorbing
great amounts of the fluids.

Fire of water, rises from the Earth, expressing/containing the cosmic
energies with which the Earth has been impregnated by the preceeding months
of winter. Dew forms just before dawn, pulled out of the Earth by the
increase in the magnetic fluid which accompanies sunrise. It is the
'Earthed' electric fluid, rising to its celestial mate, and passing quickly
through the volatile stages of dew, to evaporate-cloud, to completely
dissipated-spiritualized...and when the Great Artist (Nature) sees fit, it
recondenses, entering the visible parts of the cycle anew.

Yours in irrelevancy,
:) Rawn Clark
9 May 96

Thu May 09 20:53:34 1996
Subject: 0843 FRENCH: Roger Caro -Reply

Date: Thu, 09 May 1996 10:12:45 -0400
From: Gilbert Arnold

M. thierry ducreux ,

vous avez ecrit;

"Je me posais la question sur la difference d'obtention de la quitessence
(medecine universelle) entre la voie de la stibine
(dujol-schwaller-champagne-canseliet) et celle du cinabre
(mgr CARO).
En effet le mode d'obttention n'a rien de similaire :
- caro : obtention de la quitessence a la 3em multiplication.
(avec la pierre qui devient le vrai prophete a la premiere multiplication)
- dujol : par issolution de la pierre au rouge ou au blanc."

Aucune idee. J'ai recu des communications de certains eleves canadiens
de Caro et de Canseliet. Ces derniers me semblait manquer de
connaissances sur les procedes pratiques necessaire, par example, a la
fabrication du cinnabre, la purification du soufre natif et la preparation du
regule. Toutefois je vous recommanderais la lecture des oeuvres de
SOLAZAREF, ancien eleve de Canseliet.

Il me ferait plaisir de discuter off-line a mon addresse [email protected]
les questions relies au manipulation pratiques de base. Toutefois je dois
dire que ma politique est de m'assurer que ce que je discute ne fera pas de
tort.

+Gilbert

Thu May 09 23:20:02 1996
Subject: 0844 Query about texts

Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 16:06:56 -0400
From: photopro

>From: Jon Sharp
>Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 16:26:00 +0000
>I would be grateful for any suggestions on texts that would be useful
>as a path into alchemical study. I have a strong interest in cabbalistic
>materials and also in the possibility of seeking truth as continually
>valid pursuit in spite of the general attack on such views by much
>contemporary philosophy.
>So far I have read one text The Hermetic Art which talks of the various
>stages in the alchemical great work the red dragon, vulgar metals : real
>metals et***** " as processes of the soul rather than as physical operations on a
>substance external to onesself - is this a generally held view or
>not?

>" as processes of the soul rather than as physical operations on a
>substance external to oneself - is this a generally held view or
>not?"

Jon,
I can only address this last part of your inquiry. Apparently there is
diverse beliefs in this group. I speak for my own Truth. That is that
the true purpose of Alchemy can be done successfully both in the
physical and in the spiritual but the chemical part can not truly be
successful without metamorphosis of the Spirit and that will affect the
body, the body of circumstances and that last category includes "lab
developments" - as in the making of the Stone of the Wise/Elixir/Gold.

Below are excerpt from previous notes that I have submitted to this
forum.

>All the Mystical sciences are also and primarily - "tangents in" toward
>understanding who you are and becoming that. The Secret of the Universe,
>of all the ages, is that everything, being and symbol is literally You.
>You are all there is and you are now striving to recollect your SELF!
>Wisa

And :
>Every tangent in has great value or a degree of it.
> I would like to make a statement .
> No matter what else we do... like work in the lab, there is the essense
>of what we are working on and it is I. I am the vessel, I am the stone, I
>am in process of change and becoming. I would be and am the touchstone and
>would be the elixer of life.I as Mankind and as who I AM. Also I - AS WHO
>YOU ARE - WHICH IS - "I AM".
> I am thus also the Hermetic vessel . The chemistry is in and working on
>Me. The physical exertions have their value but the pineal gland at the
>base of my brain is transmuting into the Stone of the Wise.
> As a Hermetic Vessel, I claim to BE signed, sealed, liberated, and
delivered...into
>Freedom. Therefore when discussion goes round to growth and transcendence
>through understanding through this forum, it is not off the mark of
>Alchemy. It is just which aspect is being discussed at the moment. They
>are corresponded.

And:
> that portion that states above "the Stone could be found only as a result
>of divine favor..." This is true of all the creative genius tangents into
>"Divine Art". For Man might elect and strive but without "BLESSINGS/GRACE"
there will be hinderance in the processing of Desire / Quest toward
Wisdom/Stone/Transmutation."

And:
Notice this Golden Dawn excerpt:

" is placing his/her self into the Alchemical furnace and is then far
more prepared to
apply him/her self to the Great Work in the higher grades."

Placing his/her self into the Alchemical furnace - The fire that does
not burn..(read some mythical references to Isis and her adventures to
find her dead husband). This is once again referring to Alchemical
Process working on the body of Man.

Wisa - PhotoProse

"All there is, is Love."
"Truth is the order of the Universe"
[email protected]
Wisa

Fri May 10 09:14:10 1996
Subject: 0845 Regarding Secrecy

From: Steven A. Feite
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 18:18:09 -0435

Hello:

At 11:02 AM 5/4/96, Alchemy forum wrote:
>From: calhhh
>Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 18:12:33 -0400
>

>The subject of secrecy has been an important issue of discussion
>as long as there have been alchemical viz occult knowledge. The
>word HERMETISM in itself became associated through the centuries
>with a CLOSED or SECRET subject or matter. I do not really think,
>that given the nature of the world we live in, with all its greed
>and unjustice, ANY serious alchemist would truly feel that ALL
>occult/alchemical knowledge should be unveiled indiscriminately ...
>I base this statement on the following :

I believe the role of secrecy in Western Alchemy is (at least) twofold:

1. It's probably not a good idea to talk about such things as alchemy
during an era of persecution by the patriarchy: the so-called burning
times.

2. The secrecy of alchemy is really "self secret" in that the "symbolism"
is clear to those who have accessed the states of consciousness that the
"symbols" refer to. Since the Western Alchemical teachings most likely
originated in India, from Rasashastra (lit. "Mercury Lore" or "Essence
Lore") it is helpful to know that in India such teachings were veiled in a
language called the "Twilight Language" (Skt.: "Sandhyabhasya"). This
language seems like symbolic nonsense to outsiders, but to initiates--those
who have accessed the states of awareness they refer to and rely upon--they
are perfectly sensical. That is not to say they cannot be understood by the
intellectual, they, perhaps, could.

Just another $.02,

Steve

Fri May 10 09:14:19 1996
Subject: 0846 Plant Mutations

From: John Reid
Date: Thu, 09 May 1996 19:03:56 -0400

> From: Clinton R. Armitage
> Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 10:30:12 -0400
>
> A present and probably ongoing interest which I have, has to do with
> energies and how energies contribute to spontaneous transmutation (mutations
> ) in the plant kingdom as well as controlled Mental focusing of
> energies in order to bring about predetermined mutations.
>
> If anyone connected with the Forum has or is working in a similar manner
> perhaps we could exchange thoughts.
>
> It is necessary to add that I am neither scientist nor scholar so my
> communications would be quite simple.
>
> Interests in " The Secret Life of Plants " ( who's author recently left the
> physical body ) and the Findhorn experiment in Scotland would probably be
> compatible.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Clinton Armitage

I have never really studied plant mutations. But I have done
some mental work on forming matrixs for crytallization
patterns of plant salt during successive solve and coagulas.

Look forward to corresponding with you.

JHRIII

Fri May 10 09:14:42 1996
Subject: 0847 Query about texts

From: John Reid
Date: Thu, 09 May 1996 18:56:16 -0400

> From: Jon Sharp
> Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 16:26:00 +0000
> I would be grateful for any suggestions on texts that would be useful as a
> path into alchemical study. I have a strong interest in cabbalistic
> materials and also in the possibility of seeking truth as continually valid
> pursuit in spite of the general attack on such views by much contemporary
> philosophy.

Jon

Alchemy is both spiritual and physical. Actually there is no
difference between the two because all matter is spirit.

You might try reading Frater Albertus's book "The Alchemist
handbook" or Manfred Junius's book "The practical Handbook of
Plant Alchemy" You can also direct your web browser to

http://www.levity.com/alchemy/

Go into the virtual library and look for John Reids course on
plant alchemy. There you will find information on making an
alchemical plant stone. The section on "The Minor Opus in
Words and Pictures" has pictures showing the entire
evolutionary process of the stone. i.e. showing the actual
extraction of the Red and White Mercuries, putrification of
the conjoined 3 essentials in the sealed vase of Hermes, and
the stone turning green, white and red.

JHRIII

Fri May 10 09:14:55 1996
Subject: 0848 Regarding Occult Training

From: Pat Zalewski
Date: Fri, 10 May 96 08:25 NZST

George did a very good analysis on the post Alex Gathercole who tells us
there is a good and bad occult, and and the bad is witchcraft etc. I very
much doubt Alex has any association to pagancraft in his life otherwise he
would not make such a silly statement. I have known some wonderful people who
are witches and pagans and they have contributed well to society as a whole.
Again we get this moralistic holy then thou attitude. Occultism is a naked
force to be directed into any nook and crany that wants to receive it. The
concept of good and evil depends entirely on the society one works from and
is subjective. Homosexual activity in Greece for example was the norm during
its Golden days. In some countries it is punishable by death today. So who
is right? Good and evil seems to depend on the time and place and someone
taking the moralistic high ground. Occultism is a bit like a gun. The thing
itself is not evil but it may be used by people who have evil motives (again
this is subjective).

The problem a lot of people have is where to associate occultism and
alchemy? What alex has done is a dollar each way by dividing good and bad
occultism and the good can be used for alchemy where the bad cannot. Again I
disagree with this. Either you are an occultist or you are not. It's a bit
like White and Black Magick.Occultism ius a very broadbanded terminology and
possibly that is part of its downfall(in some respects) in todays society.
Though it is difficult to define we all know it when we see it. People can
be an occultist and happily do magick without being evil. The problem we
occultists have to face is the past conditioning of the word occult and
visons of orgies and running after goats and sacrificing babies deep in the
woods at night.(it gets very cold here in NZ in the winter and if it tried
the orgies bit I'd end up in the divorce court) The other vision of someone
working patiently away in libraries and studying very hard does not enter
into it. Alex was a student of Farter Albertus and it shows in his posting, with some of Frater Albertus's beliefs. As my old friend and Golden Dawn
mentor Jack Taylor said about Frater Albertus when he met him in New Zealand
some years ago. `Frater Albertus seems to to think a lot of him self.." A
point that seems to have passed on over to Alex with his pontificating.But
he is entitled to his opnion, just like I am entitled to mine.

Pat zalewski

Fri May 10 09:15:04 1996
Subject: 0849 Dew and alchemy

From: John Reid
Date: Thu, 09 May 1996 19:01:58 -0400

Joel

I have done some very extensive work with water and
especially collecting dew, rain water etc to make the
Archeaus of water.

If you browse Adam's web site at

http://www.levity.com/alchemy/

and go to the alchemy virtual library and look for a course
called John Reids course on plant alchemy. You will find
sections therein (the three essentials, four elements,
Archeaus of Water, and the Minor Opus in Words and Pictures
that exhaustively deals with my work and water.

I look forward to corresponding with you about this very
exciting subject.

p.s. have you done any work with Capillary Dynamic studies?

JHRIII

Fri May 10 15:55:49 1996
Subject: 0850 FRENCH: testamentaire de Solazaref

Date: Fri, 10 May 96 11:13:18 +0200
From: Ingo Bogliolo

Equinoxe de printemps 1966

Communication testamentaire de Solazaref
au reseau INTERNET (premiere communication)

Mes chers curieux de Science et de
Connaissance,

Apres avoir oeuvre durant plus de vingt annees pour l'enseignement de
l'Alchimie, ce en dehors de ma propre experience de vie interieure, voici qu'il
arrive ce que tous les groupes serieux ont connu: apres avoir donne son sang et
sa vie a un certain nombre d'individus qui demandaient la connaissance
hermetique, surviennent maintenant les classiques trahisons et autres naissances
de groupuscules autodeclares et dont le but n'est evidemment pas celui de l'Art
Hermetique.
Apres toutes ces annees et m'etant depense sans compter pour tenter de
redonner naissance au merveilleux - porte meme d'entree de l'Alchimie -, j'ai du
payer beaucoup de ma personne et pour ce il m'est arrive bien des malheurs.
Certes il y eut de tres grandes joies. Je ne vous ferai pas l'affront de vous
les enumerer et laisse le soin a nos disciples authentiques de gerer l'heritage
des nombreuses expositions internationales, conferences et manifestations
diverses qui souleverent un enthousiasme inimaginable.
Quelque peu lasse par tant d'energie donnee et ne tenant a la fois absolument
pas a rester l'indetronable "gourou", aspirant d'autre part a poursuivre ma
propre vocation, je me suis retire depuis le debut de l'annee 1995.
Durant toutes ces annees, j'ai cotoye des centaines de personnes et notre
congregation a amasse une somme peu croyable de documents divers : nous
possedons des archives consequentes sur toutes les personnes que nous avons
cotoyees. Ces archives que les disciples devoileront lorsque l'heure sera venue,
demontrent actuellement deux choses:
- rares sont les individus authentiques et desinteresses qui aiment vraiment
l'Alchimie, que donc sont tres nombreux les vautours se cachant sous les plus
beaux attraits;
- l'esoterisme en general en cette fin de deuxieme millenaire est gravement
malade de materialisme spirituel et de soif paranoiaque de pouvoir : vous ne
vous imaginez pas le nombre de personnes qui veulent traverser les murs, aller
au supermarche en levitation ou autres petites desirs d'intellectuels.
Ceux-la ne sont pas dangereux. Ils ont toujours existe et existerons
toujours. Par contre, les plus malins d'entre eux se sont appliques a extraire
des connaissances plus pratiques et plus convaincantes de ce qu'ils ont appris
de notre congregation : vous observerez de plus en plus l'emergence de petites groupuscules qui s'autodeclareront les descendants directs de la science infuse. Nous n'en eprouvons aucune gene parce que cela fait partie de la loi de la transmission de la connaissance et du cercle des epreuves des neophites.
Depuis une annee et demie maintenant je n'ai plus que faire de toutes ces
galipettes eternelles et je pense que vous avez compris que je n'ai rien a
perdre. Le sens de la presente est simplement pareil a un vieux loup qui pousse
du fond de sa montagne quelques derniers hurlements a l'intention des jeunes,
car je les ai toujours aimes et j'ai toujours ete sincere vis-a-vis d'eux :
d'ailleurs vous observerez que je ne tirerai aucun profit de ce que je vous
communique ici, de quelqu'ordre que ce soit. Je vous parle a travers cet
extraordinaire reseau qu'est INTERNET comme un vieil ami vous raconterait une
histoire au coin du feu.
Vous verrez paraitre beaucoup de documents sur ma vie. J'espere que cela vous
amusera, meme si 95% d'entre eux sont d'avance fabulatoires. Cela n'a pas
d'importance : je veux simplement vous transmettre ici une partie de ma memoire.

Commencons par la voie seche, c'est-a-dire par Fulcanelli. Vous entendrez la
aussi bien des choses sordides. Et si mon Blason a du montrer d'autres voies, je
dois vous preciser ce qui soit sur la voie seche. On me declarera tantot Adepte,
tantot fumiste ou scelerat. Cela m'amuse. Mais le droit canon hermetique par
lequel je puis vous dire cela sur la voie seche ne peut etre ni conteste ni mis
en doute : historiquement je me promets de vous rappeler que c'est moi qui ai
prepare le corps d'Eugene Canseliet, disciple de Fulcanelli. C'est moi qui l'ai
mis en biere et qui l'ai veille, aide d'un seul compagnon dont je parle plus
bas, en dehors bien entendu de la famille proche. Je suis
donc patente pour vous dire que pas un des pique-assiettes et d'autres
profiteurs qui s'autodeclarent disciples de la voie seche n'y etaient.
A l'eloge funebre d'Eugene Canseliet, en dehors de la famille il y avait les
amis. J'y ai vu les dignitaires secrets de la maconnerie authentique. J'y ai vu
aussi Atorene pour lequel je garde une affection particuliere, les autres, qui
ne venaient que pour grapiller et pomper un peu plus encore, couraient derriere
nous avec les appareils photos: comme d'abitude... Mais le seul compagnon qui
etait present a mes cotes que j'ai vu, le seul que j'ai vu s'inquiter du devenir
materiel et familial de son vieux maitre malade, le seul que j'ai vu faire des
centaines de kilometres pour pelleter la neige devant sa porte afin qu'il ne
tombat pas, le seul que j'ai vu ne pas dormir pour lui, pour son vieux maitre
est un etre dont j'ai toujours apprecie la loyaute. Je l'ai vu travailler des
heures au fourneau conformement a la voie seche et si nos destinees se cont
separees pour bien des raisons qui n'ont pas d'importance, il est actuellement
le seul que je reconnaisse come heritier de Canseliet, c'est-a-dire de
Fulcanelli. Je cite Roger Bourguignon. En dehors de lui, peut-etre d'Atorene et
quelque part de ce sacre Jean Laplace, tous les autres me paraissent des rigolos
et de purs et simples voleurs d'eritage.
J'ai ete viole dans mon amour pour ceux que j'ai aimes sincerement, ceux-la
meme qui aujourd'hui se retournent contre moi et s'imaginent pouvoir prendre la
barre de ce bateau ivre qu'est l'Alchimie. Laissez-les gesticuler et croire en
leur science infuse car vous n'y changerez rien : des salauds resteront ad vitam
#ternam des salauds. Vous rencontrerez aussi des dizaines de personnes se
tarquant de m'avoir cotoye. Elles vous montreront elles-memes des lettres que
j'ai pu leur ecrire alors qu'elles feintegnaient etre sinceres : verifiez
toujours aupres de notre congregation si aujourd'hui ces personnes ne sont pas
simplement de vulgaires receleurs hermetiques.
Dans notre tradition j'ai ete celui qui fut charge de mettre l'accent, a
cause d'un formidable changement du au modernisme, sur le travail sur soi, ainsi
que sur la pratique du laboratoire debouchant sur les Arts : il me parait en
effet important de mettre en garde les curieux de Science contre toute autre
interpretation actuelle de l'Alchimie. Il faut simplement savoir ce que l'on
recherche vraiment en soi. Est-ce le pouvoir, est-ce l'illusion ou autre chose?
C'est possible et permis. Mais qu'on ne se leurre pas sur les resultats! Je
pense que sans changement interieur profond et sans une application immediate
des travaux au fourneau et a l'Art, l'Alchimie ainsi
tranforme par d'autres voies reste une utopie dangereuse menant a des deboires
et bien des malheurs : tres peu de personnes au monde sont capable de travailler
dans la purete du laboratoire par desinteressement et contemplation. Pour
acceder a ce stade, il convient d'apprendre beaucoup et surtout de partager par
l'Art ce lien avec le plus grand nombre. L'Art tout court permet cette union
entre l'Alchimiste et la multitude. Si on ne partage pas cette connaissance avec
elle, nous ne sommes alors qu'une vulgaire secte enfermee dans notre tour
d'orgueil : reconnaissez donc les disciples potentiels a leur amour pour l'Art.
Parmi les centaines de personnes que j'ai pu rencontrer, je garde un souvenir
particulier et veridique pour Monsieur Nitzel aux Etats Unis, pour Monsieur
Camille Coudari au Canada, pour les disciples de Van Bernus en Allemagne, pour
les applications pharmacologiques develeoppees par les groupes Steiner en
Europe, par quelques groupes Gurdjieff que l'on reconnait par le silence et le
travail, pour des ingenieurs travaillant dans des groupes industriels a la
pointe du progres comme Messieurs Yves Guinomet, Jacques Faure et d'autres
encore. Ce ne sont la que quelques
indications dont je publierai dans quelque temps l'integralite pour que les
choses soient precises et claires.
Actuellement, pour ce qui concerne le fonctionnement de notre congregation,
j'ai demande le silence a cause de la trahison d'anciens disciples et la fatuite
avec laquelle ils se sont appliques a tenter de nous declarer une secte.
Habiles dans les techniques de manipulation mentale, dont je leur ai montre
les traits pour qu'ils s'echappent de leur propre intoxication, ils ont applique
a notre encontre nos propres methodes. Par exemple, ils nous ont declares secte
et ont tente de faire tout un tapage mediatique autour de cela, alors que nous
avons des documents que vous pouvez consulter, et qui prouvent que eux servent
la secte Osho, la franc-maconnerie politique type socialo-communiste et non
l'authentique, l'extreme-droite internationale la plus dure, la plus
reactionnaire et la plus anti-semite: l'ensemble des personnes se declareront groupe d'Alchimie par INTERNET et ayant sejourne chez nous appartiennent a cette fiente. C'est a cause
d'elle que nous avons nous-meme subie une campagne de presse en 1988.
En rejoignant ces personnes, dont nous avons eu le courage de nous
debarrasser a grand peine, vous ne servez ni l'esoterisme ni l'Alchimie: vous ne
faitez que rejoindre de puissantes sectes et apporter votre sang a
l'extreme-droite internationale. Nous tenons a votre disposition tous les
documents et preuves de ces assertions. Nous tenions a vous informer.
Au fond, tout cela n'est pas tres serieux. Nous souhaitons en effet beaucoup
de disciples a ces personnes qui apprecieront en leur temps un formidable retour
de flamme dont ils n'ont pas idee.
Et nous leur souhaitons surtout des disciples aussi "appliques" qu'ils l'ont
ete. Beneficiant actuellement de l'aura de notre propre Egregore, ils jouissent
et sont ivres de pouvoir. Qu'ils en profitent, le vinaigre viendra bien assez
tot.
Quant a moi je vous embrasse affectueusement tous, mes chers fous d'Alchimie,
que vous soyez perdus dans le desert d'Allah, que vous priiez nantis de la kipa,
que vous usiez vos genoux devant la croix, que vous soyez assis en lotus ou
perdus derriere une machine. A un de ces jours sur la route avec ma vieille
Harley Davidson...

Avec affection,
pour mon Pere,
Solazaref

P. S.: texte traduit en italien, en allemand et en anglais, envoye dans les
trois langues sur INTERNET.