Alchemy Forum 0901-0950

From January 25th 1996, the Alchemy forum was restructured and the messages were sequentially numbered. This is an unedited extract of messages 901-950.
Go to next 50 messages . Back to forum archive.

Sat May 18 13:59:33 1996
To: Forum Colloquium
Subject: 0901 Grail Message?

From: Peggy
Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 10:52:28 -0500 (EST)

Wisa:
>Everyone(many)quotes and refers to The Grail Message. What is it? Who
>wrote it? When? How did so many participants use this special reference
>material??? How, when, what , why?
> Please inform me of this material. Thank you all.
>Wisa

The Grail myth is from a collection, actually a cycle, of stories
and songs written by poets and troubadours over a long period
of time during the middle ages. (Sorry, I do not have the exact
dates on hand.) Some are in French and some in Anglais. Sometimes
the cast of characters, or their names, change. It all has to
do with King Arthur and his knights of the round tablwe.

The relevance of this to spirituality is that the Grail cycle can
be seen as a metaphor for a higher spirituality and there are
many parallels between it and the Christian Jesus-Christ symbol,
myth, vehical (whatever you choose to call it). Arthur in
particular symbolizes the coming of a new age that is based
-- not on revenge -- but on redemption and unity and equality.
There are a couple main messages, not just one though. Its
complex. There is a major set of meaning associated with the
wounded Fisher King and also with teh Grail itself.

You can find information in any library. Its a fascinating subject.
The legend of Richard, Coeur de Lion and Robin Hood is simlar but
(unfortunately) overshadowed by the Arthurian legend.

Regards,

- Peggy -

Sat May 18 13:59:44 1996
To: Forum Colloquium
Subject: 0902 Polywater

From: calhhh
Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 15:21:35 -0400

Dear Forum members :

Following the string on rain water, dew, etc. has anybody done any
research or heard about Polywater ? I think that the procedure
in question would be an interesting research area, specially if
combined with dew, properly collected and processed .....

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
SUBJECT : POLYWATER (Extracted from Chapter XII)
SOURCE : LES LIVRE DES MONDES OUBLIES by ROBERT CHARROUX, 1971

In all the ages, water has excited the imagination of men and researchers,
that recognized in it strange powers.

It was believed that its composition was well known, its nature, its
function, but then, also keeping some mental resrve of doubt and intuition,
that a sacred mistery might lay hidden in the limpidity of this moving crystal.

The chemists are not usually interested in ocultism; however, when in 1962
and in 1967 the rusian sages Boris V. Deryagin and N. Fedakin obtained in
their laboratory a solified water, that instead of crystalizing, had the
appearence of a plexiglas block, felt something close to a brush with an
Angel's wing.

Their water was analogous to the common water, H2O, with the same chemical
formulya (H2O)n, but it boiled at 600 degrees and it freezed at -40. Theorically,
it has been calculated that changing somewhat its preparation method, its
boiling point could be raised up to 800, 1000, 1200 degrees, and perhaps even
more !

The english chemists from the Unilever team, the americans Ellis Lippincott
and Gerald Cessac of the University of Mayland, as well as the profesors
Robert Stromberg, Warren and H. Grant, of the National Office for Weights
and Means, also manufactured this water in 1970 and gave it the name of
polywater, also called abnormal water.

Only infenitesimal quantities may be obtained; its density is 40; its liquid
appeareance is similar as of a colourless sirup, and its vapor when
condensed becomes again normal water.

It is a common water, but its molecules are polimerized: the parts of its
whole body are formed by the repetition of one same unit diversely modified;
it is thought that the molecules form an hexagonal net, instead of chains
like in normal H2O.

The polywater is obtained warming distilled water, durin 18 hours, in
capillary tubes and a reduced pressure, thing that singularly brings to mind
the alchemists procedures.

The quantities obtained are minimal, as it also happens in Nature, specially
in certain clays, in the plants, and as it is believed, in our own cells,
where it may play an function still poorly defined, but of primordial
importance at the level of the own manifestation of life.

This polywater could very well be the Mother-Water, and its properties could
be very well related to the fantastic properties of the sacred fountains of
the ancients, the mistery of the caverns, of the Isis and the
Virgin-Mothers, of Afrodite, of Venus, of Pure Water, of initiation or even
also of the waters of Youth or Inmortaility, about which so much has been
said, even without believing in them.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

I will welcome your comments,

ORCIS
[email protected]

Sat May 18 13:59:53 1996
To: Forum Colloquium
Subject: 0903 Dew & Health

From: joshua geller
Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 19:13:03 -0700

Alchemy forum writes:
> From: Michael Hyson
> Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 22:41:32 -0400 (EDT)

> Re" Heavy water and ageing
> I have zero knowledge of the effect of heavy water on ageing.
> The heavy water will electrolyze and evaporate more slowly because
> it is heavier. Therefore, salt lakes and the oceans have higher
> concentration of heavy water.
> Distilation should cause the light water to come over first.

I really don't think that any of this is true. my girlfriend, who is
trained as a chemist says: '"heavy" water is more water than heavy and
should not respond any differently to ordinary distillation.'

> Ordinary tap water has about 1 part in 2000 of D2O

I think this part is true.

josh

Sat May 18 14:00:03 1996
To: Forum Colloquium
Subject: 0904 Grail Message?

From: Rawn Clark
Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 00:17:20 -0400

In a message dated 96-05-17 09:18:45 EDT, you write:
>
>>Date: Wed, 15 May 96 17:34:03 -0000
>>From: photopro
>>
>>Everyone(many)quotes and refers to The Grail Message. What is it? Who
>>wrote it? When? How did so many participants use this special reference
>>material??? How, when, what , why?
>> Please inform me of this material. Thank you all.
>>Wisa
>

Dear Wisa,

I have personally never quoted from this book, because I personally think
it's a piece of trash. Only one person on the Forum has been quoting this book,
and though there have been several subsequent quotes, they were quotes of
her quotes. There is definitely NOT the consensus about this book on the
Forum that you have implied above.

:) Rawn Clark
17 May 96

Sun May 19 17:55:09 1996
To: Forum Colloquium
Subject: 0905 Some feedback about books

From: John Reid
Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 19:04:32 -0400

Alchemy forum wrote:
> From: FLORES
> Date: Fri, 17 May 96 08:22:57 EDT
> Hi there,
>
> My interest in Alchemy started a few months ago while I was trying to
> duplicate D. Hudson white gold. Then I discovered this amazing art. I
> found practical alchemy very fascinating. I'll try to get some books
> and I would like some feedback about them to see if its worthy to get
> them.
> the books are
>
> The Practical Handbook of Plant Alchemy : An
> Herbalist's Guide to Preparing Medicinal Essences,
> Tinctures, and Elixir
> by Manfred M. Junius

> and

> Alchemists Handbook
> by Frater Albertus

> Has anybody used them?
> Thanks for your attention
> Ismael Flores
> [email protected]

Ismael

I and many other alchemist that I know got there start using
these books. They are excellent for any beginner.

JHRIII

Sun May 19 17:55:15 1996
To: Forum Colloquium
Subject: 0906 Dew and Alchemy

Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 19:16:47 -0400
From: John Reid

Alchemy forum wrote:
>
> From: FLORES
> Date: Fri, 17 May 96 08:22:52 EDT

> Sorry for this question, I'm new here. What is the dew for?

> thanks
> Ismael Flores

dew is used in amny alchemical experiments. It can be used
for producig the archeaus of water from wich GUR (pre
Adamic earth) is produced. There are procedures also in which
alchemist are able to obtain Niter salts from the dew.

Dew Is special also because it is exhaled from the earth, it
rises up plants and stalks (defying gravity). Properly
collected and prepared dew is a key ingrediant in making a
alchemical plant stone.

JHRIII

Sun May 19 17:55:21 1996
To: Forum Colloquium
Subject: 0907 Attraction to worldly activities that deplete our libido

From: [email protected]
Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 01:51:14 -0400

In a message dated 96-05-17 09:58:51 EDT, you write:

>When you advance, the transformation
>will be great enough at a certain point for your attraction and
>subjection to that desire to "fall away"

Wisa, I was glad to see this said someplace. It was among the earliest
lessons in the personal alchemical interpretations of my magical experience.
I must say, in addition, this experience also points to most "advances" as
something like a plunge into water, where depths are sounded before one must
come back for "air", ie: day to day living. Some of the symbols of apparent
progress have baffled me, though, as I find myself ever working on the
infinite variety of my own foolishness. The years go by with a lot of
clinging either to a masthead of memory or the crow's nest of anticipation.
I have therefore come to mistrust concepts of "progress" in a linear sense,
and have likewise grown skeptical of those who claim it. I always return to
myself and that part seems set in granite. Only Grace, ever has moved me
past here, strive as I may, without the assistance of temporary boosters,
like psycotropic agents. Do any of you, readers, relate to what I am
saying? In any case, yes, when I have been "there" (which I can't help but
define as the Divine Presence) all the supposed faults were transformed to
service just as all desires were, likewise, gathered up in that wondrous
sense of joy and gratitude.

Love & Light!

Keeper

Sun May 19 17:55:28 1996
To: Forum Colloquium
Subject: 0908 Attraction to worldly activities that deplete our libido

Date: Sun, 19 May 96 19:30 NZST
From: Pat Zalewski

>Date: Wed, 15 May 96 18:30:04 -0000
>From: photopro
>
>A comment about repression only related to a thought that came up as I
>was reading this one sentence.

>>Attraction to worldly activities that deplete our libido

>You can not really give up your desires ( different from that One-Pointed
>Desire) until you are ready. To repress them hurts the body greatly ( not
>talking about great anti-social destructive to the greater society
>desires which must be sublimated). When you advance, the transformation
>will be great enough at a certain point for your attraction and
>subjection to that desire to "fall away". Then you don't give up
>anything, it loses its pull! It has been replaced by Universal Value
>system which is what prevails and your force is put into first: The
>Creative Arts ( Works of Art) and then: reverses to become simple i.e-
>The Fool Tarot Card 0.
>
>Wisa

Good post Wisa. I have always felt that to ignore the desires, in some
circumstances makes one run away from the real world and ones true vocation.
It's my berlief (whether I am right or wrong) that someimes we have to face
our desires and work through them for better understanding of self. I have
always thought that sometimes karma plays a big part here, and to get away
into some nice state of consciousness and never feeling the real world is
simply a form of blocking or armouring the psyche. I came to this
realisation while studying in India in the 1960' . More importantly , would
alchemy also echoes this point as well. To reach the goal of the experiment
there is always a trail by fire where the prima materia is put to the
crucial test. Too much flame and the experiment is ruined, not enough and
one starts again, but at no time will one reach the experiment with going
through the flames,it is simply a question of degree. I take the trial by
Fire as pushing oneself to the limit where the self or the experiment is not
ruined.

Pat zalewski

Mon May 20 09:57:27 1996
To: Forum Colloquium
Subject: 0909 Some feedback about books

From: "Barry Carter"
Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 13:32:02 +0000

Dear Ismael,

A couple of Hudson's favorite books on alchemy are available on the
WWW from Amazon bookstore:

Fulcanelli : Master Alchemist (Le Mystere Des Cathedrales Esoteric
Interpretation of the Hermetic Symbols of Great Work

by Fulcanelli

Paperback
List: $15.95 -- Amazon.com Price: $15.95
Published by BROTHERHOOD OF LIFE BOOKS
Publication date: June 1984
ISBN: 0914732145

Sacred Science

by R.A. Schwaller De Lubicz

Reprint Edition
Paperback
List: $14.95 -- Amazon.com Price: $13.45 -- You Save: $1.50(10%)
Published by INNER TRADITIONS INTL LTD
Publication date: January 1989
ISBN: 0892812222

Barry Carter
Blue Mountain Native Forest Alliance
Voice 541-523-3357
Fax 541-523-9438

Mon May 20 09:57:07 1996
To: Forum Colloquium
Subject: 0910 Some feedback about books

From: "Barry Carter"
Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 13:32:02 +0000

Dear Ismael,

A couple of Hudson's favorite books on alchemy are available on the
WWW from Amazon bookstore:

Fulcanelli : Master Alchemist (Le Mystere Des Cathedrales Esoteric
Interpretation of the Hermetic Symbols of Great Work

by Fulcanelli

Paperback
List: $15.95 -- Amazon.com Price: $15.95
Published by BROTHERHOOD OF LIFE BOOKS
Publication date: June 1984
ISBN: 0914732145

Sacred Science

by R.A. Schwaller De Lubicz

Reprint Edition
Paperback
List: $14.95 -- Amazon.com Price: $13.45 -- You Save: $1.50(10%)
Published by INNER TRADITIONS INTL LTD
Publication date: January 1989
ISBN: 0892812222

Barry Carter
Blue Mountain Native Forest Alliance
Voice 541-523-3357
Fax 541-523-9438

Mon May 20 09:57:40 1996
To: Forum Colloquium
Subject: 0911 Dew & Health

Date: Mon, 20 May 96 14:22 NZST
From: Pat Zalewski

In my own work with dew, which was primarily based on the Mutus Liber, I
have found dew to be a type of catalyst. It is used as a carrier of the
salts. Since the salts in an experiment are varied, and not all the same,
the constant distillation with dew will carry over all the salts as the
temperature varies. If you look at dew beyond its chemical composition, it
does , to my mind at least, emitt a variety of intangeable etheric
vibrations. Dew will work with plants and metals or metalic salts. One
person many years ago described dew as likened to a syprup that carries the
essence of the medicine to various bodily organs. I havefiound that dew
seems to adapt ( I call this etheric density) to the plant it clings to when
harvested. Perhaps someone who has the correct equipment may be able to do
some spectro analysis on dew from different plants) and more importantly Dew
that falls in one month is not necessarily the same that falls in the
preceeding or later months. All this should be taken into account There is
still a great deal more work to do on this subject. I have also heard dew
called (again either rightly or wrongly) Virgins Milk.Some of you may ask
how the hell do you measure Etheric denisity? Well I use the old fashioned
pendulum. I do a scale from 1-100 and take a measurement. Being a radionics
theraptist I find this very easy to do. I am also of the opinon that dew
extracts salts form living plants then as it dries on the plants, the
transmusted substance is absorbed back through the cells giving it slightly
more vitality. This is mainly guess work though but Dew as an extractor is
an interesting concept that needs more work on before I would consider it a
fact.

Pat zalewski

Mon May 20 09:57:49 1996
To: Forum Colloquium
Subject: 0912 Grail Message?

Date: Mon, 20 May 96 16:54 NZST
From: Pat Zalewski

Wisa,
Whenever I think of the `Grail message' I feel like bursting into song `To
dream the impossible dream..' and finish it off by reading about `Platos
cave'.

Pat zalewski

Mon May 20 10:45:58 1996
To: Forum Colloquium
Subject: 0913 Polywater

Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 09:21:02 GMT
From: JACK HANDLER

More recent work, cited in various Journals, has shown the facts of
"polywater" to be other than is cited in posting 0902.
More specifically, it is simply not the Elemental Phenomenon it was
originally suggested to be - But rather the result of badly done (and
wrongly interpreted) experiments.
Without a doubt, however, Water does contain Mysteries...

Mon May 20 17:37:56 1996
To: Forum Colloquium
Subject: 0914 Grail Message?

From: "R.A.Lee"
Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 13:11:54 +0100 (BST)

I am a little confused as to the nature of this Grail message. Is it
actually a single text or is it a term that is applied to all the Grail
myths. Whatever the case I would agree that the Grail myths in relation
to the Arthurian texts, most notably Mallory's interpretation are as
dubious as the fictitious Lancelot. The Troubadours and the other Medieval
poets accounts of Arthur were more concerned with promoting the new
chivalric ideals than in accuracy. Indeed, the Middle ages saw a number
of secret societies, particularly on a Royal level that developed to
promote this new chivalric interpretation of the Arthurian legends. If you
look at some of the earlier Arthurian texts most notably the earlier Welsh
accounts *the name of which escapes me at the moment but I believe it was
something like triad* then there is no mention of the Grail quest, and indeed
the whole basis of the Arthurian legend is quite noticeably Celtic, for
instance the use of Caliburn as opposed to Excaliber.

Rik.

Mon May 20 17:38:04 1996
To: Forum Colloquium
Subject: 0915 heavy water
Cc:

Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 14:59:45 +0100
From: William Hollister

Entering halfway through an apparently ongoing discussion on the nature of
heavy water in alchemical processes, I read that heavy water is made of
deuterium which has an extra neutron giving a mas of 2 rather than 1 which
hydrogen has. So the formula is d20 rather than h20.

I also understand that this a process that is essential to the creation of
atomic energy and weaponry.

What are the consequences of applying a science specific to nuclear power
to the true nature of the holy grail? would not Paracelcus be a bit
concerned?

WH

Mon May 20 17:38:13 1996
To: Forum Colloquium
Subject: 0916 Polywater

Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 09:42:35 -0400
From: John Reid

> From: calhhh
> Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 15:21:35 -0400
> Dear Forum members :
> Following the string on rain water, dew, etc. has anybody done any
> research or heard about Polywater ? I think that the procedure
> in question would be an interesting research area, specially if
> combined with dew, properly collected and processed .....

This sounds interesting, do you know where more information
can be found?

JHRIII

Mon May 20 17:38:22 1996
To: Forum Colloquium
Subject: 0917 On Occult Training

From: [email protected] (George Randall Leake III)
Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 09:17:03 -0500

>From: Alec Gathercole
>Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 21:03:27 GMT
>In post 0825 I objected to the Grail Message blanketing occult teachings as
>inadvisable in its prelude of "Is Occult Training Advisable" when answering
>its own question.

*For one I'm still hazy on what the context is? What do you mean by "Grail
Message"? I assume its the Holy Grail of Arthurian legend, of which there
are dozens of interpretations. Which "occult teachings"?

My intention was to separate out some activities which IMO
>create the difficulties which the message highlights.
>There are procedures in some cults which call themselves "occult groups",
>that I am aware of, where practices are not far short of menticide and
>brainwashing.

*this is utterly meaningless which I have pointed out before and you
refused to clarify. Which "cults" are you referring to? I am unaware of any
"cults" that call themselves "occult groups" as you assert. And what do you
mean by "brainwashing" and "menticide"? What exactly is this?
*Moreover does anybody think this has any value to the study of alchemy?
One person's vague generalizing I think is a waste of this forum's time.

They use artefacts and stimulants that discredit our work

*here we go again...

>They use the same nomenclature as we have and leave their on our more
>genuine and humane activities. There are many who have been adversely
>affected by these groups if unequipped to withstand the suggestive
>instructions received when their procedures are used. If the message had
>highlighted the orthodox and soul purifying occult techniques I would not
>have attempted to define occultism for it is a difficult task to document
>information where so many differing connotations are placed on specific words.

*did this guy just send out the same message or something?

[edited for brevity]

>Libido is essential though for the awakening of those higher senses as
>clairinstinctus, clairscientia, clairvoyancia, and clairaudientia the
>equations to which is intuition, reason, understanding, and wisdom as
>outlined in QBL academia.

*does anybody actually find this helpful?

>May I conclude this contribution by saying I have enjoyed the past 3 months
>reading your various postings on the forum, the private mail received and
>the stimulation gained.

*too bad you couldn't contribute with something a little more substantial
or at least a little less vague.

-G.Leake, 512-471-9117 [email protected]

Mon May 20 17:38:35 1996
To: Forum Colloquium
Subject: 0918 Grail message revealed

Let me just clear up this matter of the Grail message. This was mentioned in a thread entitled "On occult training". Petra Gottlieb quoted from an inspirational book, "IN THE LIGHT OF TRUTH" by Abd-ru-shin (Oskar Ernst Bernhardt) published in 1971, mentioning a section entitled the GRAIL MESSAGE.

Works of this writer, Abd-ru-shin, can be seen at http://www.aone.net.au/grail
I have seen this book some years, and in my opinion it has little relevance to alchemy, or indeed to grail studies. It is an inspirational work somewhat in the style of the Kahil Gibran, "the Prophet".

In my opinion we don't need to further explore this particular "Grail message" on the alchemy forum.

With best wishes,

Adam McLean

Mon May 20 19:02:20 1996
To: Forum Colloquium
Subject: 0919 Polywater

Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 10:32:47 -0700
From: joshua geller

> From: calhhh
> Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 15:21:35 -0400
> Following the string on rain water, dew, etc. has anybody done any
> research or heard about Polywater ? I think that the procedure
> in question would be an interesting research area, specially if
> combined with dew, properly collected and processed .....

'polywater', after a brief vogue, was found to be due to impurities in
the experimental apparatus.

josh

Mon May 20 21:36:17 1996
To: Forum Colloquium
Subject: 0920 Polywater

Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 12:25:56 -0600
From: Patrick J. Smith

ORCIS writes:

> The chemists are not usually interested in ocultism; however, when in 1962
> and in 1967 the rusian sages Boris V. Deryagin and N. Fedakin obtained in
> their laboratory a solified water, that instead of crystalizing, had the
> appearence of a plexiglas block, felt something close to a brush with an
> Angel's wing.

The historical record of polywater is set out in detail in a valuable
and well written book entitled "Polywater," by Felix Franks, MIT
Press, 1981:

It was difficult to remain objective, because the general
atmosphere was one of polarization: One had to be a
believer or a rejectionist. In the meantime Deryagin
["discoverer" of polywater] and his large team of
assistants continued their investigations, apparently quite
unperturbed by any suggestions that the strange properties
of polywater might be due to contaminating materials. (p. 99)

Be that as it may, the reporting of polywater certainly
exhibited symptoms of a strange kind. We witnessed a
multitude of short communications not backed up by more
substantial data, an unusually active grapevine,
publication of crucial results via the press interview
rather than through established channels, a prominent part
played by the popular press, and an unusual pattern of
growth and decline akin to the outbreak of an epidemic.
(pp. 130-131)

> The polywater is obtained warming distilled water, durin 18 hours, in
> capillary tubes and a reduced pressure, thing that singularly brings to mind
> the alchemists procedures.

During the polywater affair, lots of labs were reporting results,
others were unable to replicate. This went on for years before it was
proven that the effect was due to subtle contamination.

At the time, the contamination level of the water in the capillary
tubes was thought variously to be zero, or a lot, and the whole effect
hinged on that. It was eventually possible to prove contamination.
Later experiments showed that "polywater" was really a sodium silicate
solution (water glass) due to the rapid dissolution of the interior of
the micro-pipettes in pure water. Someone had discovered an unusual
effect, and it took a while to understand it. In short, it is very
difficult to actually get pure water.

As a curious side note: many years later, Deryagin became the main
cold fusion proponent on the Russian side! Some have suggested that
the parallels between the two affairs go even deeper...

> This polywater could very well be the Mother-Water, and its properties could
> be very well related to the fantastic properties of the sacred fountains of
> the ancients, the mistery of the caverns, of the Isis and the
> Virgin-Mothers, of Afrodite, of Venus, of Pure Water, of initiation or even
> also of the waters of Youth or Inmortaility, about which so much has been
> said, even without believing in them.

I'm also very interested in sacred wells, and so forth, have collected
a lot of information about such things, and have some ideas. But I
really think that we'll have to look elsewhere than polywater for an
answer.
-Patrick

Mon May 20 21:36:31 1996
To: Forum Colloquium
Subject: 0921 Organic/Unorganic Matter?

Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 22:07:20 +0200
From: Kenneth �strand

When the Swedish author and alchemist August Strindberg wrote a letter to
his wife Siri, he could start like this: "Dear beloved devil!...

I�m not going to start so dramaticly,.... just with a swedish Hej! and
thanks for letting me read Your fantastic 775 messages on the New Forum
Archive. I have learned a lot (but still a little) of the Royal Art of
Alchemy. And there has also arisen some questions for me. i.e. am I a little
confused over to see the scientific idea of differentiating Nature in
organic(living) and unorganic(dead) matter, still existing on the Alchemy
Forum (0447). Wasn�t it so that the alchemists not made that difference?

I suppose man made one of her greatest mistakes when she, in spite of the
discoveries 1828 by W�hler - when he succeded in synthetically uniting
"unorganic" ("dead") matter to become organic (living) matter, and then for
the first time in history succeded in proving the unit of Nature - not went
in for the living unit of Nature, but get caught in the superficial
judgement of the eyesight, and gambled on the thoughts on a dead, unconscious
unit of Nature.

Isn't it here a place where the alchemists of today must be careful not to
walk in the same footsteps as "the mechanics"? Isn't it better to suppose
that there can't be anything dead in the activity (nature, creation) of God
(or whatever You will name the organic unit), because all matter in the
Creation is an expression of Him, a living being?

Friendly wishes

Kenneth
(I would be happy...)

P.S. Strindberg was very proud of being initiated in Association Alchemique
de France. If someone know a little about this association I would be very
happy to hear a little, thank You!

"In Heaven ther�s only Work" (v Hlatky)

Tue May 21 07:50:14 1996
To: Forum Colloquium
Subject: 0922 Sunspot ?

Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 18:58:36 +0000 (MET)
From: Maurizio Galaverni

Hi,

is there a link between alchemic work and solar activity ?
Are there reports of alchemic or spiritual "flops" during quiet sun periods?
(sorry if my question is naive :-))

Tnx

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Reply to: - [email protected]

Tue May 21 07:49:28 1996
To: Forum Colloquium
Subject: 0923 Dew & Health

Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 20:23:13 -0400
From: Raymond P. Cullen

Alchemy forum wrote:
>
> From: Steven Rimpici
> Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 10:05:48 -0400
>
> I too have read of the effects of heavy water on aging. Is there any type
> of substance that will bond with heavy water but not H20? Is it possible to
> filter out the D20 from tap water?
>
> I'd appreciate any help anyone can give.
> In love and light,
> Steven Rimpici

Two comments on this posting and the one on polywater.

In my business, we separate the hydogen isotopes in two ways. In the
older of the two, the three isotopes T2, D2 and H2 are distilled in a
cryostill. Since this is at a pretty low temperature, it would seem to
be difficult for a person without a large budget to perform. The second
method utilizes proprietary hydride beds to separate D2 and T2 at
elevated temperatures.

Polywater was debunked some years ago after it was discovered that the
glass was dissolving after protracted boiling.

Ray

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Reply to: - [email protected]

Tue May 21 07:50:23 1996
To: Forum Colloquium
Subject: 0924 Pat Re: Grail Message

Date: Tue, 21 May 96 00:32:29 -0000
From: photopro

THANK YOU FOR YOUR INFO ON THE GRAIL MESSAGE.
Yes, it is known that the story of King Arthur and the Knights of the round table is full of Mystical symbolism and very worth reading with new mindset. This book
sounds like a expounding of the message in terms that are more evident.
Wisa

"All there is, is Love."
"Truth is the order of the Universe"
[email protected]
Wisa

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Reply to: - [email protected]

Wed May 22 00:25:36 1996
To: Forum Colloquium
Subject: 0925 Sunspot ?

Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 12:18:35 -0500 (EST)
From: OISPEGGY

>is there a link between alchemic work and solar activity ?

I think there is. I've done, and continue to do solar
workings. I am far too much a novice, though, to relate
these to practical alchemy.

I am now starting moon workings. Email me if you want more
information. I've written up some of my thoughts on my
moon workings, but do not think they are of interest to this
list, so I'm not posting them here.

Some posters here have commented on how they use astrology
prior to any workings. I am not tuned into the planets (yet)
and only use sun and moon. Maybe one of these days.....

>Are there reports of alchemic or spiritual "flops" during quiet sun periods?
>(sorry if my question is naive :-))

Seems to me that the sun/moon, or whatever you choose to call it inside
yourself, must be in balance (or whatever you choose to call that) for
advances to be made.

Regards,

- Peggy -

Wed May 22 00:26:08 1996
To: Forum Colloquium
Subject: 0926 Dew & Health

Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 07:05:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: hyson

Re: heavy water concentrations.
I will defer to the chemists on this. Simple distillation may be
inadequate to separate them. Although I did read that salt lakes and
the deep sea are thought to have higher concentrations -- at least
so it was said in some of the cold fusion literature.

The Germans in WWII separated the two in electrolytic cells --
and in that case, the light H electrolyzed easier and therefore,
the cell became enriched in D2O.

Aloha
Michael

Wed May 22 00:26:21 1996
To: Forum Colloquium
Subject: 0927 Grail Message?

Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 09:51:39 -0500
From: George Randall Leake III

>From: Pat Zalewski
>Wisa,
> Whenever I think of the `Grail message' I feel like bursting into song `To
>dream the impossible dream..' and finish it off by reading about `Platos
>cave'.

*hell, I think about all those horny nuns asking for oral sex in Monty
Python and the Holy Grail.

-G.Leake, 512-471-9117 [email protected]

Wed May 22 09:24:23 1996
To: Forum Colloquium
Subject: 0928 Sunspots

From: Joseph C. Lisiewski

>is there a link between alchemic work and solar activity ?
>Are there reports of alchemic or spiritual "flops" during quiet sun periods?

I can only speak from my own knowledge base, of course; and as such, I am
not aware of any correlation of sunspot activity with alchemical pursuits.
Owing to the irratic nature of the phenomena, it would be difficult, at best
to provide for a verifiable base. I was trained in the Theory and Praxis of
Laboratory by Frater Albertus at the (former) Paracelsus Research Society in
Slat Lake City, Utah, and completed all 7 Year Classes back in '80. We
seemed to cover the essentials of "Astro-Cyclic Pulsations" as Frater cared
to term astrological influences, in that work. He did not, however, mention
sunspot activity, nor have I personally encountered it in my private readings.

Hope this helps.

J.C. Lisiewski < Proton Joe > [email protected]

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Reply to: - [email protected]

Wed May 22 09:24:35 1996
To: Forum Colloquium
Subject: 0929 Alchemy in France : additions

From: Ingo
Date: Wed, 22 May 96 08:32:59 +0200
X-To: [email protected]

>Date: Thu, 09 May 1996 08:50:33 +0000
>From: Joel Tetard
>2.2. - FILIATION SOLAZAREF (or "Les Amoureux de Science").
>The last known address of Solazaref's Filiation was:

M. Solazaref asked me to forward the following:

La Filiation Solazaref precise:
- que les "Editons Aux Amoureux de Science" ne representent plus la
Filiation depuis Janvier 1995, date a laquelle elles ont choisi de
pactiser avec des forces politique d'etreme droite auquelles la
Filiation Solazaref est fondamentalement opposee;
- que les adresses actuelles de la Filiation sont:
- Filiation Solazaref (SAE/IRC)
La Tour Serviat
63410 MANZAT
France
- Editions "La Cour des Miracles" (SAE/IRC)
La Tour Serviat
63410 MANZAT
France
- que Solazaref vient de publier personnellement une communication
sur le reseau Internet, precisant de nombreux point et qui
interessera au plus haut point les curieux et amis de Science.

Domenico (Ingo) Bogliolo
CICS - Universita' "La Sapienza" - Roma, Italia
vox: +39-6-49913845; fax: +39-6-49913837
e-mail: [email protected]

Wed May 22 19:13:09 1996
To: Forum Colloquium
Subject: 0930 heavy water

Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 18:37:44 +0100
X-Sender: al4302

At 17:40 20/05/96 +0000, you wrote:
>Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 14:59:45 +0100
>From: William Hollister
>
>Entering halfway through an apparently ongoing discussion on the nature of
>heavy water in alchemical processes, I read that heavy water is made of
>deuterium which has an extra neutron giving a mas of 2 rather than 1 which
>hydrogen has. So the formula is d20 rather than h20.
>
>I also understand that this a process that is essential to the creation of
>atomic energy and weaponry.
>
>What are the consequences of applying a science specific to nuclear power
>to the true nature of the holy grail? would not Paracelcus be a bit
>concerned?
>
>WH
>

Nuclear Fusion perhaps? I
In a test tube at room temperature perhaps?

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Reply to: - [email protected]

Wed May 22 19:13:16 1996
To: Forum Colloquium
Subject: 0931 Dew and Alchemy

Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 18:39:23 +0100
From: al4302

>>> Sorry for this question, I'm new here. What is the dew for?

>Dew Is special also because it is exhaled from the earth, it
>rises up plants and stalks (defying gravity). Properly
>collected and prepared dew is a key ingrediant in making a
>alchemical plant stone.
>
>JHRIII

Metaphor, Meataphor all is Metaphor

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Reply to: - [email protected]

Wed May 22 19:13:25 1996
To: Forum Colloquium
Subject: 0932 Re: Grail Message

Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 08:50:01 -0500
From: George Randall Leake III

>From: photopro
>THANK YOU FOR YOUR INFO ON THE GRAIL MESSAGE.
>Yes, it is known that the story of King Arthur and the Knights of the round
>table is full of Mystical symbolism and very worth reading with new mindset.
>This book

which book?? Malory? TH White? Marion Zimmer Bradley?

-G.Leake, 512-471-9117 [email protected]

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Reply to: - [email protected]

Thu May 23 16:07:10 1996
To: [email protected]
Subject: Grail message redundant!!!

Dear R.A. Lee,

The "Grail message" was a thread pursued on the alchemy forum which arose from a misunderstanding. We will not be pursuing it further, as the Grail stuff is not really relevant to alchemy. You may have missed my posting "0918 Grail message revealed" on 20/5/96. I have included it below.

Best wishes,

Adam Mclean

------------------------------------

0918 Grail message revealed

Let me just clear up this matter of the Grail message. This was mentioned in a thread entitled "On occult training". Petra Gottlieb quoted from an inspirational book, "IN THE LIGHT OF TRUTH" by Abd-ru-shin (Oskar Ernst Bernhardt) published in 1971, mentioning a section entitled the GRAIL MESSAGE.

Works of this writer, Abd-ru-shin, can be seen at http://www.aone.net.au/grail
I have seen this book some years, and in my opinion it has little relevance to alchemy, or indeed to grail studies. It is an inspirational work somewhat in the style of the Kahil Gibran, "the Prophet".

In my opinion we don't need to further explore this particular "Grail message" on the alchemy forum.

With best wishes,

Adam McLean

Thu May 23 16:16:17 1996
Subject: 0933 Alchemy forum back on zz.com

I am assured that zz.com is back in operation, and from this message onward postings will be sent out from zz.com again. The Colloquium system which I used in an emergency has a number of problems, and does not consistently deliver all the mail to all users - a feature many of us discovered to our annoyance during December and January.

The last message sent out on the Colloquium system was number 0932 posted on 22nd May 1996. If any subscribers are missing some messages I will place them onto the web site archive in due course.

Please inform me if any postings you make to zz.com are returned to you undeliverable.

With best wishes,

Adam McLean
[email protected]

Thu May 23 16:28:49 1996
Subject: 0934 Alchemy web site

The alchemy web site has now moved to a site in the USA. This should give faster access, and will also allow space for growth. You should set your web browser bookmarks to

http://www.levity.com/alchemy

The Colloquium server will remain on line, but the files will all have update pointers to levity.com, but after three months or so I will probably close down the colloquium web site.

The site structure remains exactly the same. There were a few problems setting it up on the new system, which worked a little bit different from Colloquium, but due to the assistance of some volunteers from the alchemy forum, we have removed most of the broken links, and it seems to be running well. The next phase is to set up a mirror site in the Czech Republic, and I will be working on that over the next few weeks.

The space on the new server has been donated by Dan Levy of Levity.com and this should allow me to further develop the site over the next few months. We have developed a substantial library of text files, and I now want to supplement this with a library of graphic images of alchemy emblems from books and manuscripts.

With my best wishes,

Adam McLean

Thu May 23 16:46:19 1996
Subject: 0935 Update on microfilms

A month or so ago I posted a note asking for help in acquiring some microfilms of manuscripts in the British Library which had translations into English of important alchemical texts.

The response to this request has been extremely satisfying, with offers so far of subsidy for the purchase of six microfilms. I would like to thank all those who were able to subsidise me in this project. I will not embarrass individuals by mentioning their names here, but I will write directly to thank them personally.

Eventually all these texts will be made available on the web site.

With my best wishes,

Adam McLean

Thu May 23 16:52:03 1996
Subject: 0936 Alchemilla vulgaris

Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 17:40:16 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Halvard Haarklau

Hello.

I am new to this list. Thank you, Adam, for maintaining this great resource!

I have a question conserning plant alchemy:

I have heard that 'Ladys mantle' got its scientific name 'Alchemilla vulgaris'
from its use in alchemy. The hand-shaped leaves of the plant collects
a drop of dew, or the drop is secreted from the plant. In norwegian folk lore
it is said that this was used as a medicine for sore eyes. It was also drunk as
a refreshment, mostly by children.

Any comments aboat this? Is it rich on spagyric sulphur or mercury? Are there
alchemical manuscripts on Adam's site concerning this matter? Have any of the
practising spagyrics on this list been using it?

Regards!

Halvard Haarklau

[email protected]

Fri May 24 09:09:22 1996
Subject: 0937 Alchemilla vulgaris

From: Russ House
Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 19:22:52 -0400

Dear Halvard,

I have made limited experiments with Alchemilla. I think that the volatile
sulphurs in the form of essential oils are limited... you will see that the
leaf has very little fragrance, which is a good indicator. There are
indeed numerous other 'sulphurs' which are less volatile, which can be seen
with a simple alcohol or water maceration of the plant. I have made an
elixir of the plant, and a more specific one using just flowers, which
should, if tradition is correct, have more of the 'fire' principle, where
the leaves are more of an 'air' principle. The amount of mercury can be
found by fermentation -- I have not made this process on Alchemilla. It is
a pleasant plant to grow and see in the garden. Perhaps it is its
'fascination' with dew that makes it an 'alchemist'.

Regards,

Russ House

>From: Halvard Haarklau

>I have a question conserning plant alchemy:
>
>I have heard that 'Ladys mantle' got its scientific name 'Alchemilla vulgaris'
>from its use in alchemy. The hand-shaped leaves of the plant collects
>a drop of dew, or the drop is secreted from the plant. In norwegian folk lore
>it is said that this was used as a medicine for sore eyes. It was also drunk as
>a refreshment, mostly by children.
>Any comments aboat this? Is it rich on spagyric sulphur or mercury? Are there
>alchemical manuscripts on Adam's site concerning this matter? Have any of the
>practising spagyrics on this list been using it?

>Halvard Haarklau

Fri May 24 09:09:34 1996
Subject: 0938 Sunspots

Date: Fri, 24 May 96 19:46 NZST
From: Pat Zalewski

One of the wondeful things about the internet is that alchemists from all
over can discuss subjects that perhaps others had not bothered with.
Sunspots is a good example . Professor Edward Dewey published an article in
`Cycles' magazine, Sept 1967 called `A key to Sunspot-planetary
realtionship.' which is worth picking up a copy from your library. My own
edition is long since vanished though at the time I remember linking it to
alchemy and astrology in general. You would have to study the work of
Professor Piccardi(late of Florence University) who did numerous studies of
the extraterrestrial effects on inorganic chemistry. Professor takata also
worked on this as well. See `Helvetica Medica Acta, vol. 17 1950.pp 254-74.
There is quite a bit of data floating around on sunspot activity and its
effects on chemistry, which should help the alchemist be more aware of the
magnetic effects of the sun in general during alchemical experiments.

Fri May 24 15:18:30 1996
Subject: 0939 Heavy Water properties

Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 11:48:45 +0000
From: JoelTetard

John E. Myers wrote :
> I came across a place on the web that claimed that the heavy water in
> water is a major contributer to aging. I was just wondering if the
> heavy water was lost in the formation of dew, or even steam
> distillation.

I have no information on heavy water and dew but I send you some data
which could be of some interest (I hope !).

Relative abondance of stable Hydrogen isotops H
H(1) 99,9844%
H(2) or Deuterium 0,0156 %
Tritium H(3) is unstable and very rare: H(3)/H(1) ratio is about 10e-18.

Relative abondance of stable oxygen isotops :
O(16) 99,76% (Caro : 99,758%)
O(17) 0,04% (0,0374%)
O(18) 0,20% (O,2039%)

Average Rates of isotops of Hydrogen and Oxygen in Water
H(1)2 O(16) 99,7%
H(2)2 O(16) 2.10e-6
H(3)2 O(16) traces
H(1)2 O(18) 0,2%
H(1)2 O(17) 0,04%
H(1)1 H(2)1 O(16) 0,03%

Physical properties of Ligh Water, Heavy Water, Peroxyd Hydrogen,
Peroxyd
Deuterium
H2O D2O H2O2 D2O2
Density 0,99823 1,10530 1,473
(at 20°C) (at 20°C) (at 0°C)
Melting point 0°C 3,813°C -0,43°C 1,5°C
Boilling point 100°C 101,42°C - -.
Vaporisation heat 10 515 10 844 12 345 12 526
(cal/mole) (at 25°C) (at 25°C) (at 25°C)

Light water reaches its maximum of density at 4°C (d= 1,000). Maximum
density of heavy water is 1,106 at 11,9°C.

As a result of these differences between evaporation properties O18/016
ratio in atmosphere grows with temperature (note from JT : for instance,
in Spring...). This ratio is used for the study of temperature
variations during long periods (analysis of "fossilised" ices) and for
the following of Global Warming.

Using differences between physical properties of light and heavy waters
one could extract about 1g of heavy water from 15 litres of common
water.

Fractionated distillation was also used in order to improve the rate of
heavy water in common water.

On the other hand, using the same way, one could separate heavy water
from common water.

This way was followed by Dostrowsky in 1952 who succeed in separating
heavy water.
He used very long distillation columns ( 15 meters long for a diameter
of 10 cm and with 400 to 600 "steps" or "plateaux" in French) and worked
under low pressure between 250 and mm of Hg.
(Source: Claude Rocchicciolo, "Les Isotopes", Coll. Que sais-je, n�1111,
Presses Universitaire de France, Paris).

Note : according to Solazaref, it could be possible to obtain heavy
water from deep and quiet volcano lakes.

Fri May 24 15:18:41 1996
Subject: 0940 Dew and Alchemy

From: JoelTetard
Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 11:21:30 +0000

> Sorry for this question, I'm new here. What is the dew for?
> thanks
> Ismael Flores

"Vaste problem..." (General de Gaulle)

Although I did not work with dew and I have a very little experience of
Alchemical work I'try to help you in summarise information on this
subject.
First we have to understand the "philosophical background" of alchemy :

Classical authors in Alchemy and Spagyry said the actual agent of
transmutation is Spiritus Mundi (Soul of the World) which seems to be an
"echo" or a remaining part of the primordial Fiat Lux.

According to these authors Spiritus Mundi, which seems to be the Mercury
principle, is the real agent of all lifes and could be used by Alchemists
in order to complete Nature's work.

Spiritus Mundi cames from the sky (it is also nammed Flos coeli) and is
more abundant during the Spring equinox.

Coming from the sky, Spiritus Mundi" is firstly incarnated in the Nitre
salt of dew which is said to be similar to Saltpetre.

The Art of Alchemy is provide, step by step, a more suitable vehicle to the
Spiritus Mundi in order to concentrate it and to improve its power.

The first support should be as "amorph" as possible : this "Subject" is
in fact a little "Chaos" itself, which is said to remain from the
original Chaos used as Prima Materia for making the Univers.

During all the alchemical steps, Spiritus Mundi extracted from dew will
change of support or vehicle up to the final Stone. (see the"Philosophical
ladder" symbol).

At the end of the process the Cosmic Energy would be concentrated in the
Philosophical Stone and could be used to transmute at a very important
rate less "evoluted" bodies (even alchemist himself).

If Spiritus Mudi is used with Prima Materia, it could (should) be also
incorporated in other products used in the alchemical work.

For instance, in the Dry Path, you'll purify your melting salts with dew
in order to have "canonical salts".

Working with such "philosophical salts" you will obtain a green enamel,
the "sinople", at the end of the First Work. This enamel is the famous
*VITRIOL*. You'll do not obtain it with common salts.

On the other hand, using a Canonical Female (the "Chaos") you need a Male
which should be Canonical too. In the Dry Path you will treat your
"Ridder" (Chevalier), i.e. iron used for reducing your tri-sulphur.

I suppose it would be possible to work in a similar way in other mineral
paths (Caro's Path for instance) and in Spagyry.

You'll find above some quotations coming from classical texts about
works on dew.

Most of them are dedicated to the Dry Path. (I hope you understand
French !).

-----------------------Some Quotations about Dew--------------------

"Ce qui manque a la chimie, vis-a-vis de l'alchimie, ,[...], c'est le
commerce constant avec *l�universel*, la cohobation repetee de l'esprit
sur la matiere[...]"
(Eugene Canseliet "L"Alchimie et son Livre Muet "Mutus Liber"", comments
on 1st plate)

"[...] appuyons sur la necessite que la rosee soit elle-meme enrichie de
l'influx cosmique, a la descente duquel participe le soleil en meme
temps que la lune. Voila bien une indication dont il semble qu'elle
n'est jamais ete fournie par les auteurs, et que Jacob Sulat exprima en
une gravure rien moins que symbolique et confinant, pour lui, presque a
l'inobservance du secret jure.
[...]
Sur cette planche IX, par la scene distincte, au bas de la composition,
Altus voulut souligner, sans attendre, la destination finale de cette
rosee, vehicule naturel de l'esprit astral ...
[...]
De cette eau celeste, plus exactement du sel precieux qu'elle retient en
solution, le metalloide acquerra sa grande et nouvelle vertu ..."

(Eugene Canseliet "L"Alchimie et son Livre Muet "Mutus Liber"", comments
on 9th plate)

"Sous l'effet de la chaleur appliquee avec sagesse, grace a son nitre
subtil, la rosee eleve et anoblit tout sel que ce soit
et,preferablement, ceux que la nature a reserves pour le Grand OEuvre.
En compagnie de cette couple des fondant salins, la nocture
condensation subit l�action du feu facilement et sans dommage; c'est la
que reside la secrete raison pour laquelle les membres de la
*Rose-Croix* se denommaient entre eux les freres de la *Rosee-Cuite*."
(Eugene Canseliet "L"Alchimie et son Livre Muet "Mutus Liber"", comments
on 4th plate)

"Notre sel, ou si l'on prefere, notre fondant, est double, parce qu'il
est physiquement compose de l'addition ana ("a l'ecart") de deux sels
differents."
(Eugene Canseliet "L'alchimie expliquee sur ses textes classiques", p.
167).

"Notre adjuvant salin, notre mediateur, est constitue du melange de deux
composes oxygenes, lesquels sont par la meme le feu des sages.
Limojon de Saint-Didier avertit charitablement l'amateur de science
qu'il devra le preparer lui-meme, en le conservant tel qu'il l'aura
retire de son milieu generateur, avec la plus grande industrie."
(Eugene Canseliet "L'alchimie expliquee sur ses textes classiques", p.
169).

"La rosee, en rendant philosophique les fondants, provoquera
ulterieurement l'apparition de l'email vert au blason, le fameux
sinople."
(Atorene "Le laboratoire alchimique", p. 160).

"L'enrichissement des sels mediateurs, dans le Grand �uvre, se fait
simplement, au sein de la rosee, par la solution et la subsequente
cristallisation". (Eugene Canseliet)

"S'il est possible d'enrichir le nitre par son isomere celeste, il l'est
aussi d'exalter semblablement la puissante vertu du second sel." (Eugene
Canseliet)

"L'etudiant doit etre persuade que le mineral dont Fulcanelli et nous
meme avons frequemment parle, est le chaos indispensable a la creation
du petit monde alchimique.
Rien d'autre que ce corps, si ce ne sont le fer qui l'ouvre et les clous
qui le crucifient; le sel qui eveille les passions, qui les timule et
les apaise; rien d'autre ne sert au Grand OEuvre, ou plus exactement,
n'est introduit dans le compost en elaboration et surtout
n'y demeure. [...]"
(Eugene Canseliet "L"Alchimie et son Livre Muet "Mutus Liber"", comments
on 2nd plate)

Notes from Joel Tetard :

Dew take a very important place during preliminary works which are known
as "Hercules works".

The first step of these works after purifying your ore (be care of
temperature !) is Assation : you have to grind your chaos with dew in
order to have a very subtle powder or a kind of mud. Thus you'll obtain
the real Al Cohol which could help you to "look better"... ;-).

The next step of Assation is to mixed this dark powder with sand (which
gives more space between grains). Added with dew, (or an extract from
dew) this compound is then heated at low temperature during 40 days in
order to obtain a dark purple powder . This is "Philosophers Lead"
(Plomb des Philosophes) which is in fact our actual Materia
Prima. During this operation, as for the greatest part of the Work, you
should conceal your matters from light...

Please, note I HAVE NOT made assation! I hope to do it in the future.

I think dew could be also used for removing salt from Caput Mortum
before to calcine it. Just for information, using distilled water, I
obtained a yellow salt from a "non-canonical" (obviously...) Caput Mortuum. I
tried to calcine the remaining caput mortuum but I failed to obtain the reddish
"Terre du Renard".

Regards

Joel

Fri May 24 15:18:49 1996
Subject: 0941 Eastern Alchemy and the Tantras

Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 07:32:47 -0435

Hello:

Here is an article recently uploaded to the web site. I thought the members
of the discussion group might enjoy it as well.

Your in the Great Work,

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Notes On
Tantric Alchemy
and the
Purification of Mercury

Mercury, or parada in Sanskrit, has a long and detailed history of use. To
the practitioner of the Tantras (and the medieval alchemists), it was the
key to the ultimate sacrament. The purpose of this article is to share some
of my own discoveries on this fascinating and forgotten subject.
Parada traditionally has many different names, most of which are obscure
synonyms in the Sandhya Bhasya (Skt.), or Twilight Language. The Twilight
Language is an intentional language, intentionally designed to thwart the
misuse of certain formulae. The use of these formulae were only intended
for those who had experiential access to twilight states of consciousness,
and were familiar with the unique symbolism of such dimensions. In the
Natha lineage where the Alchemical teachings are preserved, these states
where obtained through a thorough training in yoga or union, and its main
method, samadhi, or mystical union.

Some of the common words used to symbolize parada are: rasa (essence),
rasendra (because it is the most important of metals), suta (because of its
ability to transmute gold), capala (on account of its volatility), rasa
raja (ruler of metals)-and many others. Most of these words are synomynous
with Shiva, indeed one of the most common synonyms refers to parada as the
"semen of Shiva". This is in and of itself, very revealing. Shiva, in the
Tantric literature, symbolizes infinite time (Skt.:Mahakala). This explains
the esoteric symbolism embedded in Shiva's traditional iconography: a yogin
crowned by the eclipsing moon: the sun and the moon conjoined. Karmic prana
is withdrawn from the solar and lunar channels to become jnanic
(transcendental) lifeforce. There, Shiva and Shakti lie, beyond time, in
the central channel (sushumna). In order for creation to come into being
Shiva enters into "play" with his opposite, Shakti. Thus the concept of
time, and limited experience becomes possible. In the process of making
parada consumable, parada is mixed with this opposite; the only substance
which can control Shiva's incredible potential, purified sulfur: the
'menses' or blood of Parvati (Shakti).

Technically speaking, Shakti is Ahamkara (Skt.) or literally 'the I-maker',
the power behind 'I-ness', the kundalini shakti herself. A human only
exists based on the fact that Ahamkara deceives herself into believing that
she is mated to the limited physical body and its resident personality.
When the kundalini shakti is completely 'uncoiled', she recognizes that she
is Shiva's 'power'. Unfortunately, for the uninitiated or inexperienced
person, once this shakti is 'awake to itself,' it forgets the limited
body-mind, and remembers Shiva. She sacrifices her limited individuality to
him and obtains instant enlightenment. The problem for the uninitiated is
quite simple; those who have not trained in meditation and the total
transcendence of limitations, both of time and of body-mind, will at worse
lose the ability to identify with the body, i.e. physical death. At best,
the huge influx of kundalini will overwhelm the limited energy/immune
functions of the body like millions of volts of electricity running through
low voltage wire. There is a misguided conception among new age-magical
circles that the "fastest" way to enlightenment is to simply awaken the
kundalini shakti. What they won't tell you is what to do with the
incredible amounts of energy released. Most of the people I have talked to
have no idea what to do with it! Remember always, that Shiva is also the
Lord of death.

Ahamkara, as the energy behind our essential egos, is the basis of all
addiction. It is Ahamkara that addicts us even to the food we need to
sustain life. The only real way to relieve this problem is to transmute
Ahamkara's binding limitation by wedding her to her opposite: Shiva. The
limitations of the 'I-maker' are then transformed by expansion into a
balanced cosmic personality. Addiction to the God/Goddess, to a higher
power, is the only permanent cure. It is interesting that even the twelve
step groups seem to understand this important idea.

Mercury, as the semen of Lord Shiva, is the physical embodiment of the fire
of transformation (tejas). It can provide incredible amounts of tejas to an
organism, and can make them capable of digesting almost anything. This
means digestion of physical substances as well as 'digestion' of the sense
objects of the five senses, the digestion of experience itself. Parada can
also provide unlimited amounts of prana. Thus with prana and tejas, fire
and water, parada can provide unlimited ojas, the Quintessence. Because it
controls these three, it can also control the three doshas, or bodily
humors. Yet, by itself, mercury forms an insoluble salt which lodges in the
brain and causes insanity or death. Ingesting mercury by itself is like
raising kundalini through an imbalanced path. What mercury needs is
something to balance it, to control its energy. That something is the
element sulfur.

Sulfur is the elemental embodiment of blood, that which the body uses to
create everything else (from an Ayurvedic perspective), and the only thing
capable of controlling mercury. Sulfur is the womb which creates the child
Kajjali, the black sulfide of mercury.

Kajjali is the alchemical child from which most of the other alchemical
substances are created. The most famous of the mercury-based compounds is
the rasayana (rejeuvanative) Makaradwaja. Makaradwaja consists (primarily)
of mercury, sulfur, and gold. This compound is capable of providing
endurance, energy, increased immune function and longevity to its taker.
Makaradwaja seems to work by allowing prana, tejas and ojas to flow into
parts of the subtle physiology where it would not normally be able to flow,
clearing many of the blockages which may be present. If taken prior to
meditation or even sleep, it can even be seen to permeate the nadis (subtle
energy-channels). Mercury allows the body to digest the otherwise only
partly digestible element of gold. This allows the concentrated "solidified
sunlight," gold, to gild the bodies immune system and aura. On a subtle
level it actually has the appearance of a volatile mercury, streaming
through the bodies channels. It is excellent for diseases such as A.I.D.S.
and different forms of cancer. The average treatment routine, repeated on a
yearly basis, should last for about a month, depending on the individual,
usually in the coldest months of the year.

Members of the Bhairavi cult, worshippers of a particularly wrathful form
of Lord Shiva, have been known to live hundreds of years through the
alchemical use of such mercury-based compounds. Indeed some are said to
have obtained immortality (by overcoming their innate addiction to time).
Statues of the Bhairavi cult display some of the characteristics of this
incredible life extension; beings so mutated from alchemical sadhana as to
resemble other dimensional Bhairavis more than humans. This is their actual
appearance, yet they may appear as any age to the observer, and do not
usually display their true appearance to the uninitiated.

In Rasa Shastra, the Art of Tantric alchemy, Mercury is considered as a
living substance-a living being. In the process of preparation it goes
through all of the same processes as the sadhaka who seeks liberation, and
the child or soul who seeks incarnation. First the mercury is 'awakened',
made 'hungry', it is 'fed', made to 'swoon', and lastly 'killed'. 'Killing'
refers to incineration in the symbolism of the Twilight Language. More than
mere symbolism, the preparation of Mercury is the preparation for
enlightenment itself, the true Gold of the Wise.

Nothing summarizes the goal of Tantric alchemy better than the following
quote from the Rasahridaya Tantra (9th cent. A.D.) by the great sage
Govinda Bhagavatpada, the Guru of Shankaracharya:

"It is only in the virtuous ones, the flame full of consciousness appears
between the two eye brows which has the appearance of fire, lightening, or
a sun. It is difficult to describe the nature of this excellent flame. It
endows the person with eternal bliss and makes him free of all miseries. It
is observable. It is peaceful and its attributes can be appreciated by the
individual. The individual should concentrate his mind on this flame and
the entire universe will appear before them like eternally vibrating
conscious-ness. Those individuals who have attained this state of unity
which is like amrita are the truly blessed ones." (Rasahridaya Tantra
I:21-26)

Fri May 24 15:19:00 1996
Subject: 0942 Sunspots

From: [email protected]
Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 17:21:30 -0400

In a message dated 96-05-23 16:20:32 EDT, Peggy quoted:

>>Are there reports of alchemic or spiritual "flops" during quiet sun
periods?
>>(sorry if my question is naive :-))

I don't know who it was that asked this originally (sorry), but I notice that
there haven't been responses from certain forum-ites who's level of
Alchemical knowledge I personally esteem. Perhaps they are at the PON
conference???

From my limited understanding, I'd say that the "flavor" (zodiacal position)
of the Sun, and/or Moon, would be most important during the "re-work" part of
the Metallic Opus in which the Three Principles are re-joined. In the
writings of the Sages, this is the point in the process where they begin
speaking about what time of the year to proceed, etc.

In purely magical Workings, the Solar and Lunar flux *can* be of central
importance, but again this depends upon the type of Working pursued.

I hope whoever asked this question initially will re-ask it when the
conferee's have returned...or at least keep asking it till they get a
satifactory answer! ;)

:) Rawn Clark
23 May 96

Fri May 24 21:11:38 1996
Subject: 0943 Sunspots

From: Barry Carter
Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 10:26:39 +0000

> >is there a link between alchemic work and solar activity ?
> >Are there reports of alchemic or spiritual "flops" during quiet sun periods?
>
>
> I can only speak from my own knowledge base, of course; and as such, I am
> not aware of any correlation of sunspot activity with alchemical pursuits.
> Owing to the irratic nature of the phenomena, it would be difficult, at best
> to provide for a verifiable base. I was trained in the Theory and Praxis of
> Laboratory by Frater Albertus at the (former) Paracelsus Research Society in
> Slat Lake City, Utah, and completed all 7 Year Classes back in '80. We
> seemed to cover the essentials of "Astro-Cyclic Pulsations" as Frater cared
> to term astrological influences, in that work. He did not, however, mention
> sunspot activity, nor have I personally encountered it in my private readings.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
>
> J.C. Lisiewski < Proton Joe > [email protected]

I can think of a couple of references to sunspot activity being
correlated with the positions of the planets. I cannot remember the
author or title of one of them but the more scientific of the two is
named The Jupiter Effect and was written by Dr. John R. Gribbin,
and Dr. Stephen Plagemann both astrophysicists. They claim that
their statistical studies show that certain angular relationships
between the planets and the sun result in a correlation with sunspot
activity and that weather and devastating earthquakes also show a
statictical correlation.

Plagemann and Gribbin went out on a limb and predicted devastating
earthquakes for California in 1982. Critics have used the failure of
this prediction to discredit them. I think that there is solid
statistical evidence that their theories were valid and should be
considered in relation to many earthbound phenomenon.

I have remembered a couple of other titles which relate to this as
well. The first is "The Scientific Basis For Astrology" and the
second, I think, is "Roadmap of Time". I am unsure of the authors
though Brad Steiger comes to mind for Roadmap of Time. The second of
these books makes correlations between planetary influences and
weather and business trends. The first just reviews the literature
for statistical studies which demonstrate an astrological
correlation.

There are a couple of other books which are peripherally related but
may be of interest. The Secret Life of Plants discusses biological
transmutation and some astrology and The View Over Atlantis by John
Michell has rather a well done discussion of the earth's energy centers
and lay lines with a fairly extensive effort to bring alchemy and
astrology into the discussion as well. Altogether a very interesting
book though it is a bit of dry reading.

Barry Carter
Blue Mountain Native Forest Alliance
Voice 541-523-3357
Fax 541-523-9438

Fri May 24 21:11:47 1996
Subject: 0944 Grail Message

Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 11:50:49 -0500 (EST)
From: OISPEGGY

>I am a little confused as to the nature of this Grail message. Is it
>actually a single text or is it a term that is applied to all the Grail
>myths. Whatever the case I would agree that the Grail myths in relation

The "Search for the Holy Grail" aka "Arthurian" songs, legends, myths,
tales, cycles, whatever... started out as an oral tradition. Most come
from France, Britain or Wales. Some have been written down and some
probably were lost.

>to the Arthurian texts, most notably Mallory's interpretation are as

If this were the correct list I'd ask what is wrong with Mallory's
interpretation/translation, but its not so I won't. I'm sure there
are many opinions on the matter. IMO historical accuracy has little
to do with it. Probably because I, and most people, study them as works
of fiction and myth, not as historical documents.

>dubious as the fictitious Lancelot. The Troubadours and the other Medieval
^^^^^^^^
In some tales, if I recall correctly, he is named Percival -- from
the french for pierce the valley (sexual symbolism) or pierce the
veil (religious symbolism). There are many layers of meaning and
interpretation, which is what makes these tales so interesting.

I've always thought that the main meaning (of all the various meanings)
is redemption from a brutal way, age, authority, reasoning, revenge etc...
and moving to a new age of equality, reason, forgiveness, etc... This
is the point of spiritual endeavors too, which is probably why the
Grail/Arthurian legends are so often used as a metaphor for the spiritual
journey (or is it the other way around).

There are many books that explore these works. Unless a question relates
to alchemy though, it probably doesn't belong here?

Regards,

- Peggy -

Fri May 24 21:11:56 1996
Subject: 0945 Grail message revealed again

Let me just clear up this matter of the Grail message. This was mentioned in a thread entitled "On occult training". Petra Gottlieb quoted from an inspirational book, "IN THE LIGHT OF TRUTH" by Abd-ru-shin (Oskar Ernst Bernhardt) published in 1971, mentioning a section entitled the GRAIL MESSAGE.

Works of this writer, Abd-ru-shin, can be seen at http://www.aone.net.au/grail
I have seen this book some years, and in my opinion it has little relevance to alchemy, or indeed to grail studies. It is an inspirational work somewhat in the style of the Kahil Gibran, "the Prophet".

In my opinion we don't need to further explore this particular "Grail message" on the alchemy forum.

With best wishes,

Adam McLean

Sun May 26 15:49:53 1996
Subject: Sunspots

From: Maurizio Galaverni
Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 23:16:36 +0000 (MET)

> Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 12:18:35 -0500 (EST)
> From: OISPEGGY
>
> >is there a link between alchemic work and solar activity ?
>
> I think there is. I've done, and continue to do solar
> workings. I am far too much a novice, though, to relate
> these to practical alchemy.
>
> I am now starting moon workings. Email me if you want more
> information. I've written up some of my thoughts on my

Could you tell me what "solar workings" and "moon workings" are ?
(sorry, I'm quite ignorant) I have not your email addr.

Tnx

Mon May 27 22:15:43 1996
Subject: 0947 TRUTH, Alchemical & Otherwise

From: Logodox
Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 21:16:44 -0500

There exists NO absolute truth on the bi-polar, finite, causal plane...

MIND is producing all that is projected "out there" and the only possible
"absolute" truth could only be a state of "MIND" which is beyond subject/object
and directly percipient of the outer and inner worlds simultaneously.

This is what is heavily alluded to in "Suggestive Inquiry Into Hermetic
Mystery" and other "spiritual" alchemical texts.

What changes in all transmutations is "MIND", not just human consciousness,
but even the "MIND" of nature (so called natural laws). Since the subject
and the object are both changing, this makes for a difficult process to
model in the normal "subject/object/causal" manner.

Best,

[email protected]

Mon May 27 21:12:25 1996
Subject: 0948 Eastern Alchemy and the Tantras

From: Pat Zalewski
Date: Sat, 25 May 96 13:16 NZST

Nice post Steve on tantric Alchemy. When I studied tantra in India back in
the 60's they kept referring to different states of Fire. We had to wade
through what this meant.We had Avavlons books which helped us a great deal
but until the merging with the diety it was more of an intellectual
exercise. In 67 or 68, I forget which, I actually had a chance to see some
Indian alchemy it was in a small village some some miles from Pondicherry.
My friend was looking to make a stil (because we were forbdidden alchohol on
the ashram) and was helped by a village alchemist. He did not work much with
metals though, mainly with herbs, seeds and dirt, all mixed together. If
memory serves me rightly he was as high as a kite most of the time but he
did come down to earth occasionally. After drinking some of this stuff it
was three days before I came back into orbit myself. The rule is never let
an ex green beret make you jungle alcohol. Also going from what I was
taught, tantric Alcehmy was more spiritual than practical. They had us doing
mantras all hours of the day and night. This stopped though when Bill (my ex
green beret friend) visited the practioners and told them not to do it
during sleeping hours. This was not very cosmic on his part but was very
practical.

Mon May 27 21:12:41 1996
Subject: 0949 Dew & Health

From: Joseph C. Lisiewski
Date: Sun, 26 May 1996 18:57:16 +0100

At 12:28 AM 5/22/96 +0000, you wrote:
>Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 07:05:39 -0400 (EDT)
>From: hyson
>
>Re: heavy water concentrations.
>I will defer to the chemists on this. Simple distillation may be
>inadequate to separate them. Although I did read that salt lakes and
>the deep sea are thought to have higher concentrations -- at least
>so it was said in some of the cold fusion literature.
>
>The Germans in WWII separated the two in electrolytic cells --
>and in that case, the light H electrolyzed easier and therefore,
>the cell became enriched in D2O.
>
>Aloha
>Michael

Michael:

"Let the Eagle fly seven times." Distill ELECTRIFIED rainwater (water that
has been subjected to a severe electrical thunderstorm [and which has not
been grounded by hitting the earh or a building that is obviously earthed]
which increases its, "nitre" content), seven times, each time redistilling
the previous distillate. Pay close attention to the appearance of the Water,
and the final product. Nuclear transformations are *suspected* to occur
outside of fusion or fission reactions, IF techniques are employed that
bring about resonance condtions at the fundamental. i.e., nucleus level.
Such events occur in Nuclear Magnetic Resonance, when ferquencies of 100 MHz
are supplied to water samples. The protons resonate; absorb magnetic energy,
rise to a higher energy level during this excitation, and hence, such
reactions may be triggered. Just a thought.

J.C. Lisiewski < Proton Joe > [email protected]

Mon May 27 21:12:56 1996
Subject: 0950 Sunspots

From: Peter Principle
Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 08:01:18 -0400

>From: Barry Carter
>
>I can think of a couple of references to sunspot activity being
>correlated with the positions of the planets. I cannot remember the
>author or title of one of them but the more scientific of the two is
>named The Jupiter Effect and was written by Dr. John R. Gribbin,
>and Dr. Stephen Plagemann both astrophysicists. They claim that
>their statistical studies show that certain angular relationships
>between the planets and the sun result in a correlation with sunspot
>activity and that weather and devastating earthquakes also show a
>statictical correlation. I think that there is solid
>statistical evidence that their theories were valid and should be
>considered in relation to many earthbound phenomenon.

John Henry Nelson, a shortwave radio engineer working for RCA in NY was the
first to establish incontovertable evidence of the effects of sunspots on
earthbound phenomenon by showing the relationship between a heliocentric
astrological chart and magnetic interference to radio broadcasting already
observed to result from sunspot activity. This was in 1951. His work
earned him awards and a consultancy with NASA as by 1967 his methods had
resulted in a 93 percent success rate of prediction in 1460 specific
forecasts. The selection and schedule for broadcasting on the various
bandwidths on shortwave radio is still established using his methods to
this day.

I have often wondered why this is overlooked by those seeking to establish
some empirical base from which to make a -legitimate argument- in favour of
astrology.

There are many interesting items on this subject in a little book called
The Cycles of Heaven
by Guy Lyon Playfair and Scott Hill

Peter Principle