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Alchemy Forum 0551-0600From January 25th 1996, the Alchemy forum was restructured and the messages were sequentially numbered. This is an unedited extract of messages 551-600.Go to next 50 messages . Back to forum archive . Thu Mar 28 10:20:52 1996 Subject: 0551 Books Search - Cremona's Geomancie Gerard Cremonensis of Astronomical Geomancy is contained in the Robert Turner compilation The Fourth Book of Occult Philosophy, London, 1655. Adam McLean Thu Mar 28 10:47:26 1996 Subject: 0552 Books Search - Aesch Mezareph Printed books:- Christian Knorr von Rosenroth. Kabbala Denudata. Sulzbach, 1677-84. [Includes text in Latin.] A Short enquiry concerning the Hermetick art... By a lover of Philalethes. To which is annexed, a collection from Kabbala denudata, and translation of the chymical-cabbalistical treatise, intitules, �sch-Mezareph; or, purifying fire. London 1714. [This English version was reprinted in W. Westcott's Collectanea Hermetica series at the end of the 19th Century.] --------------------------------------------------- Later Manuscripts:- London, Wellcome Institute MS. 1737. p206-end The Aesch-Mezareph or Purifying Fire. [Translated, with an index to the Hebrew words from the 'Kabbala denudata' by Christian Knorr von Rosenroth.] [Holograph translation and an original treatise, etc. by Charles William Hoyland.] [With some notes by Julius Kohn.] London, Wellcome Institute MS. 1763. Compendium libri cabalistico-chymici [Hebrew] seu Aesch Mezareph dicti de Lapide Philosophorum. London, Wellcome Institute MS. 1764. Compendium libri cabalistico-chymici [Hebrew] seu Aesch Mezareph dicti de Lapide Philosophorum. London, Wellcome Institute MS. 2950. Hoyland, Charles William. Collection of translations, notes and extracts from alchemical authors, and from Knorr von Rosenroth's 'Cabbala denudata', mostly incomplete or fragmentary. Authors holograph. Includes : Resum� of 'Sepher Itzirah'. Sancta Kabbala. 'The Keys' - remarks and enquiries on the great mysteries of Hermetic Philosophy. 'Aesch Mezareph' (fragments.) Glasgow University Library MS. Ferguson 68. [Christian Knorr Von Rosenroth] 1. f1-52 Aesch Mezareph: sive Ignis Purificans. [Note added in later hand]: 'collected out of the Kabbalah Denudata, abridged beginning at page 1' [On inside front cover at top]: 'in 1710 I first heard of this treatise' [and] '23 Augst 1712'. [Very similar to Westcott's edition 'AEsch Mezareph or purifying fire', London, 1894, but this manuscript breaks off partway through the last chapter.] 2. f53-69 [Quotations out of Kabbalah Denudata.] [Notes in Latin with page references to Knorr von Rosenroth's 'Kabbala Denudata seu doctrina Hebraeorum...', Sulzbaci, Francofurti, 1677-84.] f70-75 [Blank.] 3. f76 [Table at end as index to references to Cabbalistic Chemistry and the Philosophers' Stone in the Kabbalah Denudata.] Orl�ans MS. 1034. Une courte recherche concernant l'art herm�tique, adress�e � ceux qui �tudient cette science, par un amateur de philal�te, � laquelle est annex�e une collection, tir�e de la Kabbala denudata, et la traduction du trait� chimique kabbalistique, intitul� Eschmezareph ou le feu purifiant, traduit de l'anglois en fran�ois. Londres, imprim� l'an 1714. Thu Mar 28 14:53:49 1996 Subject: 0553 Thank you for advice on LPN Date: Thu, 28 Mar 1996 08:07:03 -0600 From: Roy M. Liuzza Many thanks to those who replied both privately and publicly to my request for opinions on the Philosophers of Nature; your information has been very helpful. I am quite impressed by the speed and generosity of the members of this forum; if anyone needs information about Old and Middle English (my own fields of expertise), I hope I can help as quickly and open-handedly. -- Roy Liuzza [email protected] Fri Mar 29 10:27:23 1996 Subject: 0554 Creation of Man on Earth From: Petra Gottlieb Date: Fri, 29 Mar 1996 11:58:30 GMT To Pat's >>I am sticking to the theme that ET did it!<< God created HEAVEN "AND" "EARTH"! = The above "and" the below! It is absolutely essential to understand the concept of INCARNATION, otherwise one will never understand the alchemical processes, especially when it comes to "coagulate" with a mediator between two opposites. Scientist today still wrack their brains, all in vain are they searching for A MISSING LINK without realising that there is no missing link as the following lecture will reveal. Everything in Creation evolved in a consistant, logical and sequential way exactly according to "natural" Laws. Subject: THE CREATION OF MAN (Lecture taken from the GRAIL MESSAGE ~ "IN THE LIGHT OF TRUTH" by Abd-ru-shin [Oskar Ernst Bernhardt] Vol. II/3 Copyright 1971 by Irmingard Bernhardt, Vomperberg/Tyrol ISBN 3-87860-093-3 - (URL: http://www.aone.net.au/grail ) [Text of lecture removed for copyright reasons.] So man took up the ape body and cultivated it to the physical appearance we are now. He gradually lost hair, made use of the thumb and so developed a " Hand" with which he could make his own clothes and many other things which the animals could not. Soon he stood upright, and started civilisation, while the apes remaining with the "animistic" core (originating from Unconscious Animistic Substanciality, the realm below the Spiritual Substanciality) gradually got extinct. For the sake of a more comprehensive view of Creation, the main spheres from above downwards are once more reproduces here from the Grail Message Vol.II/39: 1. The Divine: ( i ) Divinity Unsubstantiate = God ( ii ) Divine Substantiality 2. Spiritual Substantiality: ( i ) Conscious Spiritual Substantiality ( ii ) Unconscious Spiritual Substantiality 3. Animistic Substantiality: ( i ) Conscious Animistic Substantiality ( ii ) Unconscious Animistic Substantiality 4. The Spheres of Matter: ( i ) Ethereal Substance ( ii ) Gross Matter --- Petra Christiane Gottlieb [email protected] --- WO KEIN LIEB, DA IST KEIN KUNST! (Paracelsus) WITHOUT LOVE THERE IS NO ART! Fri Mar 29 16:39:45 1996 Subject: 0555 Books Search - Aesch Mezareph From: Pavel Korensky Date: Fri, 29 Mar 1996 09:38:11 +0100 (GMT+0100) Alchemy forum > Printed books:- > > Christian Knorr von Rosenroth. > Kabbala Denudata. Sulzbach, 1677-84. > [Includes text in Latin.] Thank you for the informations regarding the Aesch Mezareph manuscript. But the version from Kabbala Denundata is not what I seek. I have these translations of the manuscript, based on the von Rosenroth version. But I asked about the original manuscript. Anybody knows where is stored the original ?? Best regards Pavel Korensky -- **************************************************************************** * Pavel Korensky ([email protected]) * * DATOR3 Ltd., Modranska 1895/17, 143 00 Prague 4, Czech Republic * * PGP key fingerprint: 00 65 5A B3 70 20 F1 54 D3 B3 E4 3E F8 A3 5E 7C * ********** Fri Mar 29 16:40:45 1996 Subject: 0556 Creation of Man on Earth From: Pat Zalewski Date: Fri, 29 Mar 96 23:51 NZST Thank's for the information petra but apart from reincarnation (I am an edgar cayce fan from way back) the rest of it I don't buy. But again, thanks for the advice. Pat zalewski Fri Mar 29 16:42:23 1996 Subject: 0557 Books Search: L'Art du Potier Date: 29 Mar 96 10:14:28 EST From: Jean Dauge Les trois Libvres de l'Art du Potier Du cavalier Cyprian Piccolopassi Translates de l Italien en langue Francoise par Maistre Claudis Popelyn Reprint de l' edition de Paris 1860. MILAN editon Archee ( In Folio) sd 1970 ? J.Dauge Mon Apr 01 09:47:03 1996 Subject: 0558 DNA and Music - Follow-up From: John Obrien Date: Sat, 30 Mar 1996 13:47:07 -0600 (CST) After generating a little interest in the subject of music derived from DNA sequences last week (As a comment about the relationship of music to Alchemy), I did a little research and got the following information. From: [email protected] Date: Sat, 30 Mar 1996 01:31:45 -0500 Subject: Re: Music derived from genetic sequences; question Does anyone know any details about who, what, where...? Write to: David Deamer, Science and the Arts P.O. Box 8162 Berkeley, CA 94707 I have purchased some of the available disks and cassetes and found they make great gifts for my science and biology professors. <<<<< Also >>>> From: [email protected] (Keith Robison) Subject: Re: Music derived from genetic sequences; question Date: 30 Mar 1996 14:16:42 GMT Organization: Harvard University, Cambridge, Massachusetts : Does anyone know any details about who, what, where...? Susumu Ohno has done some of this work. If I remember correctly, you can get a bunch of citations by searching Medline for "dna and music". Some Medline search services can be found via http://golgi.harvard.edu/htbin/biopages?medline [email protected] I did a Medline search and retreived the following citation. THE ALL PERVASIVE PRINCIPLE OF REPETITIOUS RECURRENCE GOVERNS NOT ONLY CODING SEQUENCE CONSTRUCTION BUT ALSO HUMAN ENDEAVOR IN MUSICAL COMPOSITION. Ohno S; Ohno M Immunogenetics 24: 71-8 (1986) Abstract Organisms which have evolved on this earth are governed by multitudes of periodicities; tomorrow is another today, and the next year is going to be much like this year. Accordingly, the principle of repetitious recurrence pervades every aspect of life on this earth. Thus, individual genes in the genome have been duplicated and triplicated often to the point of redundancy, and each coding sequence consists of numerous variously truncated as well as variously base-substituted copies of the original primordial building block base oligomers and their allies. This principle even appears to govern the manifestations of human intellect; musical compositions also rely on this principle of repetitious recurrence. Accordingly, coding base sequences can be transformed into musical scores using one set rule. Conversely, musical scores can be transcribed to coding base sequences of long open reading frames. Mesh Headings Animal DNA* Evolution Genes, Structural Human Mice Music* Phosphoglycerate Kinase Protein Conformation Repetitive Sequences, Nucleic Acid* RNA Polymerase II Unique Identifier: 86302779 Chemical Identifiers (Names) EC 2.7.2.3 (Phosphoglycerate Kinase) EC 2.7.7.- (RNA Polymerase II) 9007-49-2 (DNA) -- ,o888b,`?~~~~~ ~~~~~P',d888o, ,8888 888 ?~~~ John D. O'Brien [email protected] ~~~P 888 8888, 8888888P' ~~~ ~~~ ?8888888 888P' ~~~ "When all the World recognizes ~~~ `?888 `88 O d~~~ good as good, This in itself ~~~b O 88' `?._ _.o~~~~~ is Evil." Lao Tsu ~~~~~o._ _.P' Mon Apr 01 09:47:14 1996 Subject: 0559 Violence for violence, murder... From: Beat Krummenacher Date: 31 Mar 96 18:59:09 EST Petra wrote: >Violence for violence, murder for murder, but thank heavens also, kindness for kindness, and love for love.< This statement is based on the law of causality. This law is an important axiom of hermetics. The Kybalion says: >Every Cause has its Effect; every Effect has its cause; everything happens according to Law; Chance is but a name for Law not recognized; there are many planes of causation, but nothing escapes the Law.< The natural laws have their basis in this principle. If this principle did not count, so it would give no legal courses of events in nature. If we utilize the law of causality, so we must consider two aspects. All events in nature obey different laws. Any condition leads to an other as consequence of the causality. According to events different laws can be valid. The way on which a condition is transported into the next can exactly be either only one certain, or there also many ways can exist to arrive from one condition at an other. Therefore we have conditions and ways as the two essential aspects of causality. An example: The earth circulates the sun on one exactly defined path through the law of gravity. The law determines, when the earth will take up a certain position to the sun. The place at the moment of the spring as a certain spatial condition of the earth goes over in the condition, i.e. place at the moment of the fall after a certain time. As long as the solar system owns the present order, the earth will exactly take up a place relatively to the sun after a certain time. There is only one way. Also the karma is based on the law of causality. In contrast to the gravitation however the karma is subject to more complicated laws. There is more than one way, how a condition can lead to a next. This fact is of extraordinary significance. Let us take the quotation mentioned at the outset. Murder corresponds to a condition, murder also is the next condition imperatively following from it. The statement maintains that a man who murders will personally be murdered. According to the quotation there is only one way, which imperatively leads to the same following condition. The erroneous acceptance this being right has seduced many men in the past. If this linearity would be right, so our life would be pure fatalism. A certain act of man would necessitate the same act as answer. It give no escaping from the wheel of rebirth. The evolution of humankind would be impossible. If one considers the principle of causality, so one would have to say more correctly: Violence can call forth violence, murder can call forth murder etc. Murder does not imperatively have murder for consequence. If a man murders, so he heaps on himself heavy karma. But in the same or in a following life this man does not absolutely force himself to be personally murdered. This case can enter. However it also can happen, that for instance the man loses a very cherished man through disease. The pain triggered through the loss can rouse in him the feeling, that each man is irreplaceable. Perhaps he subsequently recognizes, that the murder of a man will rouse the same feeling in men, which have been close to the victim. This sympathy will produce in him the certainty, that murder can solve no problems. In other words: The earlier murderer recognizes the badness of his act at that time in a quite other way. He does not have to personally be murdered to come to realize this. The definition of the principle of causality in the Kybalion especially exactly describes this: There are several levels of causality, to say ways. Of course each cause has its effect. The variety of the laws and ways does not lead however to fixed orders of events, but to abundant possibilities. A certain condition does not bear therefore exactly a certain following condition, but opens the entrance to a whole palette of possibilities. A cause always will have a certain effect. However the effect can not exactly be forecast. Modern physics has recorded this fact a long time ago. The quantum physics has replaced the simple causality of the classic physics. The conclusion: One should be very attentive in the choice of words. Quotations like that from Petra are dangerous simplifications. They are formulations, which correspond to the classic physics. The reality disobeys however classic laws. If we would like to copy the reality in words, we must accordingly choose words, which meet the complexity of the actual events. Lapis Mon Apr 01 15:14:38 1996 Subject: 0560 Books Search: L'Art du Potier From: Pavel Korensky Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 10:07:52 +0100 (GMT+0100) > Date: 29 Mar 96 10:14:28 EST > From: Jean Dauge > > > Les trois Libvres de l'Art du Potier > Du cavalier Cyprian Piccolopassi > Translates de l Italien en langue Francoise par Maistre Claudis Popelyn > > Reprint de l' edition de Paris 1860. > > MILAN editon Archee > > ( In Folio) sd 1970 ? > > J.Dauge Thank you for the informations. Do you have any idea where is it possible to get the copy of this book ? Do you have some contact to some library where is it possible to buy the copy ? Or do you know somebody which can make a copy for m? Thank you for any informations Best regards PavelK -- **************************************************************************** * Pavel Korensky ([email protected]) * * DATOR3 Ltd., Modranska 1895/17, 143 00 Prague 4, Czech Republic * * PGP key fingerprint: 00 65 5A B3 70 20 F1 54 D3 B3 E4 3E F8 A3 5E 7C * **************************************************************************** Mon Apr 01 17:48:51 1996 Subject: 0561 Violence for violence, murder... From: Mike Graffam Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 08:58:17 -0500 (EST) On Mon, 1 Apr 1996, Alchemy forum wrote: > This statement is based on the law of causality. This law is an important axiom > of hermetics. The Kybalion says: > >Every Cause has its Effect; every Effect has its cause; everything happens > according to Law; Chance is but a name for Law not recognized; there are many > planes of causation, but nothing escapes the Law.< Indeed. This is actually one of the reasons that I dont buy to heavily into hermetics: I dont think that causality is necessarily true. Sure, we interpret things that way, and order our thoughts according to this principle, but that doesnt mean it has an objective reality outside our thoughts. It is interesting to note that if you accept this view everything that happens (including chance) is a product of our mind's "ordering system" - and nothing (perceivable by us) escapes "the Law". Michael Graffam - [email protected] http://www1.mhv.net/~mgraffam - Mysticism, Philosophy and Art Page Make way for the mystic, the pure, the artistic, who, roused by a holy elation will dance till the dawn and rest in the morn as is fit for this fair celebration. (Aristophanes' Frogs) Tue Apr 02 07:27:02 1996 Subject: 0562 Violence for violence, murder... From: Barry Carter Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 11:21:29 +0000 Dear Friends, Petra and Lapis wrote about the law of karma. Petra wrote about the strict accounting and Lapis wrote about how it is modified by events. As I understand it the purpose of the law of karma is to resolve our separation from one another. In order to hurt another one must assume that the other is not connected to oneself and that they will not really feel the pain. This assumption is proven false by the pain we feel. Some people will justify their addictive behavior by saying that since the law of karma must be fulfilled it is ok to be the agent which brings karma to another. The Bible says "it is right that offences should come, but woe unto him who brings them" and "all things are lawful, but not all are helpfull". Yes, it is according to the laws of God or the universe to cause suffering but doing so ties you to the wheel of karma. The Buddha said "There is suffering" and "selfish desire (addiction) is the cause of suffering." If you want to end suffering you must end addiction. Suppose I steal a TV set from another. I would be doing this to achieve the gratification of watching television. The _feeling_ which I create in the owner of the TV is one of being violated and a sense of loss at not having the TV. My karma for this act would be to have an experience which reveals, to me, the feeling that I have "caused". That experience can take any form as long as it evokes the feeling. When I have the same feeling that I have caused in another I will think twice about causing that feeling again since I have had that feeling myself and I know how it feels. E.E. Cummings wrote: pleasure and pain are both surfaces, one itself hiding,itself revealing one. life's only and true value,neither is. love makes the little thickness of the coin. This poem contains a deceptively simple description of the law of karma and the law of grace. The law of grace says that we don't necessarily have to suffer in the way we have caused suffering. Instead we can set about learning the lesson that suffering would prompt us to learn without waiting to be prompted by suffering. We can learn love. T. S. Eliot expressed this, as well, in the Four Quartets: The dove descending breaks the air With flame of incandescent terror Of which the tongues declare The one discharge from sin and error. The only hope, or else despair Lies in the choice of pyre or pyre To be redeemed from fire by fire. Who then devised the torment? Love. Love is the unfamiliar Name Behind the hands that wove The intolerable shirt of flame Which human power cannot remove. We only live, only suspire Consumed by either fire or fire. We are either consumed by desire (addiction) or by suffering. Love is our redemption from both of these fires. Eliot goes on to say: We shall not cease from exploration And the end of all our exploring Will be to arrive where we started And know the place for the first time. Through the unknown, remembered gate When the last of earth left to discover Is that which was the beginning; At the source of the longest river The voice of the hidden waterfall And the children in the apple-tree Not known, because not looked for But heard, half-heard, in the stillness Between two waves of the sea. Quick now, here, now, always A condition of complete simplicity (Costing not less than everything) And all shall be well and All manner of thing shall be well When the tongues of flame are in-folded Into the crowned knot of fire And the fire and the rose are one. When we have left the fold through desire, the only redemption is to return to the fold by suffering or by helping others to end their suffering. The tongues of desire are in-folded through expiation into the crowned knot of fire or, in other words, the Christ or the Godhead. And the fire and the rose are one. It is important to remember that the key to karma is not suffering but the realization that others feel as we do. To come under the law of grace we must learn the difference between natural and artificial guilt. Artificial guilt sees a picture hanging crooked on the wall and instead of righting it, artificial guilt says what kind of awful person would leave such a crooked picture on the wall. Artificial guilt then punishes itself for being such an awful person. Natural guilt, on the other hand, sees the crooked picture and straightens it; no weeping, no wailing, no gnashing of teeth. Natural guilt is a sort of aesthetic sense. It is a sense of rightness and a carefullness in being sensitive to the currents of time and circumstance which can disrupt the flow of one's life. You can use natural guilt to remain centered in the law of grace. When walking through a herd of sleeping elephants (our karma) it is important to be quiet and balanced. Do not run screaming through the herd. Since the separation (and I'm not talking about individuality or uniqeness here) is the problem, the solution lies in exploring our connection to the infinite. This connection is love. Love is NOT desire; it is acceptance. Ultimately, if we are all children of the living God and the fire and the Rose are one, ("If you will know yourselves, then you will be known and you will know that you are the children of the living father") you will realize that "I and my father are one" and God will be "all in all". The key here is not just acceptance and forgiveness of others rather it is the realization that we are all connected and that we must also accept and forgive ourselves in order to adequately forgive others. In , "The Doctrine of Transcendental Magic" by Eliphis Levi it is said that for those who hold in the right hand the clavicles of Solomon and in the left hand the Branch of the Blossoming Almond there are certain powers which accrue. These are powers which are associated with the Philosophers Stone. One of these powers, the ability "to conquer love and hate" which I would rephrase as the ability to conquer desire and hate, is a necessity for the alchemical work. The carefullness and balance that one must achieve in order to be successful in alchemical chemistry mutually reinforces and is reinforced by the carefullness and balance in one's life. This carefullness and balance moves us "above all griefs and all fears". The I Ching is about how to hold your mouth in order to get what you want. It often councils us to hold our mood swings in bounds: The joyous mood is infectious and therefore brings success. But joy must be based on steadfastness if it is not to degenerate into uncontrolled mirth. Truth and strength must dwell in the heart, while gentleness reveals itself in social intercourse. Alchemy teaches this carefullness and balance since there is so much of an interaction with the material and the mind. With alchemy we get quick feedback if we harbor anger or doubts since the processes will often not work in the face of our anger or doubts. When this is understood the spiritual alchemy takes place. I am including the rest of the quote from "The Doctrine of Transcendental Magic" by Eliphis Levi for those who have not seen it. "Aleph". "He beholds God face to face without dying and converses familiarly with the seven genie who are in command of the entire celestial army". "Beth", " He is above all griefs and all fears". "Gimel", "He reigns with all Heaven and is served by all Hell". "Daleth", "He rules his own health and life and can influence equally those of others". "He", "He can neither be surprised by misfortune nor overwhelmed by disasters nor can he be conquered by his enemies". "Vau", "He knows the reason of the past, present and future". "Zayin", "He possesses the secret of the resurrection of the dead and the Key of Immortality". "Such are the seven chief privileges and those which next are these". "Cheth", "To find the Philosophical Stone". "Teth", "To possess the universal medicine". "Yod", "To know the laws of perpetual motion and prove the quadrature of the circle". "Kaph", "To change into gold, not only all metals, but also the Earth itself and even the refuse of the Earth". "Lamed", "To subdue the most ferocious animals and have power to pronounce those words which paralyze and charm serpents". "Mem", "To have the Ars Nestoria which gives the Universal Science." "Nun", "To speak learnedly on all subjects without preparation and without study". These finally are the seven least powers of the Magus. "Samekh", "To know at a glance the deep things of the souls of men and the mysteries of the hearts of women". Whoa! "Ayin", "To force nature to make him free at his pleasure". "Pe", "To foresee all future events which do not depend on a superior free will or on an indiscernible cause". "Sadhe", "To give at once and to all the most efficacious consolations and the most wholesome counsel". "Koph", "To triumph over adversities". "Resh", "To conquer love and hate". "Shin", "To have the secret of wealth. To be always its master and never its slave. To enjoy even poverty and never become abject or miserable". "Tav", "Let us add to these three sepentaries that the wise man rules the elements, stills the tempest, and cures the disease by his touch and raises the dead". Barry Carter Blue Mountain Native Forest Alliance Voice 541-523-3357 Fax 541-523-9438 Insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results. Tue Apr 02 07:27:14 1996 Subject: 0563 Violence for violence, murder... From: [email protected] Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 23:02:43 +0100 At 19:58 01/04/96 +0000, you wrote: >From: Mike Graffam >Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 08:58:17 -0500 (EST) > > >On Mon, 1 Apr 1996, Alchemy forum wrote: >> This statement is based on the law of causality. This law is an important >axiom >> of hermetics. The Kybalion says: >> >Every Cause has its Effect; every Effect has its cause; everything happens >> according to Law; Chance is but a name for Law not recognized; there are many >> planes of causation, but nothing escapes the Law.< > >Indeed. This is actually one of the reasons that I dont buy to heavily >into hermetics: I dont think that causality is necessarily true. Sure, >we interpret things that way, and order our thoughts according to this >principle, but that doesnt mean it has an objective reality outside >our thoughts. It is interesting to note that if you accept this view >everything that happens (including chance) is a product of our mind's >"ordering system" - and nothing (perceivable by us) escapes "the Law". But what if all you touch and all you see is the product of the collective mind? Tue Apr 02 07:27:23 1996 Subject: 0564 The Law of Reciprocal Action From: Petra Gottlieb Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 10:06:03 GMT In response to Beat Krummenacher's >>Quotations like that from Petra are dangerous simplifications<< The only "danger" lies in the RECIPROCAL ACTION of what oneself has put into the world !!! No one can escape this action! Not Beat Krummenacher's INTELLECTUAL ACROBATICS can change the Cosmic Law of Reciprocal Action which carry DIVINE JUSTICE from the beginning of time, --- but by degree, the effects may be weakened , if a violent man in his heart has, in the meantime, become a SAMARITER, and the murderer a SAINT. --- Petra Christiane Gottlieb [email protected] --- WO KEIN LIEB, DA IST KEIN KUNST! (Paracelsus) WITHOUT LOVE THERE IS NO ART! Tue Apr 02 07:27:39 1996 Subject: 0565 alchemical music From: ScotKelly Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 22:37:28 -0500 On March 25th Patrice Coulombe wrote: > I am a music composer and I am very interested in alchemical studies. >So,I need some information about music in alchemy. Is there alchemical >music as there are alchemical books? Are you aware of examples of music >which explain by allegories or by musical techniques the steps of the >alchemical process? Is it possible to make alchemical music? Are there musician >alchemists? Is there music in the alchemical repertoire? I have two very different references to alchemical music that I have encountered while studying alchemy. The first is from _Al-kemi A Memoir... R.A. Schwaller de Lubicz_ by Andre VandenBroeck. On pages 62-71, VandenBroeck describes his simultaneous exploration of the interval of the diminished fifth, which was called the "diabolus in musica" by a few generations of popes, and the pythagorean comma which anchors a cyclical tonal system. Though only a few pages, this section touches on the basis of proof for sacred science and the inscription of knowledge through the primary instruments that create form: volume, color, number, vibration, etc. There are also some very interesting plates in the center of the book that use the tetractys as a basis for relating human senses, which are tools of perception, to the alchemical priciples, the four ancient elements, qualities, colors, and postulating a place for the Philosopher's Stone outside but connected to this tetractys. The secondtc. ? Thank you for any help Best regards bound volume of Theosopy magazine and the article starts on page 119. It references a March 6, 1931 Science magazine that contains an article written by Dr. Donald H. Andrews of John Hopkins who took the complex rates of vibration of a number of chemical substances and played the corresponding musical chords on a piano. To give an example, he found that alcohol has a chord of seven notes which he describes as "seductive". Wood alcohol on the other hand, which is a poison, has a harsh sound although the the two are chemically very closely related. While recently reading Michael Scheider's _A Beginner's Guide to Constructing the Universe_, I came across two salient quotes: Plato: "The good, of course, is always beautiful, and the beautiful never lacks proportion." Socrates: "If measure and symmetry are absent from any composition in any degree, ruin awaits both the ingredients and the composition.." My question is, can a system(s) be devised that takes the vibrational inscription of a substance, object, emotion, etc. and through the interpretation of this inscripion by music, geometry, color, architecture, etc. further define and elaborate on the qualities and correspondences of that substance, object, emotion, etc.? Or is this knowledge unveiled by intuition and shifts in perception alone? Is the separation of number from form equivalent to the separation of spirit from matter? Scot Kelly ([email protected]) Tue Apr 02 07:39:32 1996 Subject: 0566 Karma in Western alchemy? I noted the recent discussions on "Violence for violence, murder...", and "The law of reciprocal action", and this recalled to my mind that I had never been able to find any significant references to the idea of karma and reincarnation in early alchemical texts. One might have thought that with the alchemists exploration of processes of decay, death, transformation and new birth, that there would have been some substantial exploration of the idea of reincarnation or metempsychosis. However, unless I am missing some obvious point, I just cannot find these ideas explored in alchemical texts. F. Mercurius van Helmont in the late 17th century does discuss certain ideas which some people have seen as prefiguring reincarnation, but I found this reference far from clear. Ideas of karma and reincarnation seem to enter hermetic philosophy late in the 19th century through the Theosophists, but are there any earlier references? Adam McLean Tue Apr 02 09:57:54 1996 Subject: 0567 M.A. Atwood's father I have a reference to a poem on alchemy, entitled 'The Enigma of alchemy' by Thomas South, M.A. Atwood's father. This was printed in the Theosophical Journal 'The Quest' Volume 10 (2) Jan 1919, pages 213-225. Does anyone know this piece or have a copy of it? Adam McLean Tue Apr 02 15:42:26 1996 Subject: 0568 alchemical music From: Gionni Di Gravio Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 17:28:57 +1000 (EST) Dear Patrice and others, In addition to the composers mentioned, you might like to refer to Scriabin, Holst (esp. The Planets), Stockhausen, Varese (who I think based something on Paracelsus). For me, much of 20th century music is alchemical in nature. Perhaps not in the purpose to set out to represent calcination or sublimation in such and such a way. But with the more experimental composers the ideas of purifying and distilling something unique is what alchemy is all about. I am a musician also, and for many years wrote, recorded and performed music in a process which followed an alchemical path. Looking back at the music over time, signposts were laid which were difficult to see at the time. The major thrust was to create a unique sound which absorbs everyone that works on the process. So, for those years, nothing stood in the road of the work. Family, death, Christmas, birthdays, babies were all secondary. You would sit there for hours upon hours listening and relistening, altering, tinkering, purifying. Dreams and life combine and as the alchemists of old would paint and write a riddle, so I would scribble a lyric which somehow made sense to me, for someone else god knows! But it is in this way that alchemy is like art, providing mirrors for people to gaze in and learn something about the "dark" portions of themselves and the rest of creation. Exciting stuff. Sincerely, `.' Gionni Di Gravio ( * ) [email protected] -+- University of Newcastle, Australia .^:^. P.S. You might try the writings of Dane Rudyar, also there was a work a few years ago entitled "Music in Renaissance Magic" by a Tomlinson methinks.X Tue Apr 02 15:42:38 1996 Subject: 0569 Fate - Law of Reciprocal Action From: Petra Gottlieb Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 17:08:06 GMT FATE [extracted from 'THE GRAIL MESSAGE IN THE LIGHT OF TRUTH' by Abd-ru-shin] [Text removed for copyright reasons] This lecture (Vol.II/2) has been taken from THE GRAIL MESSAGE ~ "IN THE LIGHT OF TRUTH" by Abd-ru-shin (Oskar Ernst Bernhardt) Copyright 1971 by Irmingard Bernhardt, Vomperberg/Tyrol ISBN 3-87860-093-3 (URL: http://www.aone.net.au/grail ) __________________________________________________________ You have the choice! Take it or leave it! --- Petra Christiane Gottlieb [email protected] --- WO KEIN LIEB, DA IST KEIN KUNST! (Paracelsus) WITHOUT LOVE THERE IS NO ART! Tue Apr 02 22:59:17 1996 Subject: 0570 M.A. Atwood's father Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 12:33:16 -0500 From: photopro I have one Atwood book- 'A suggestive Inquiry into Hermetic Mystery' by MARY ANNE Atwood but truly I have not read it all or recently. Try: WIESERS BOOKSTORE IN NYC THIS IS THE BIGGEST SOURCE OF OCCULT AND HERMETIC AND PHILOSOPHIES OF DIFFERENT KINDs (ANCIENT MYSTERIES). IT'S OFF LEXINGTON AVE. IN THE LOW STREETS. I FORGET AT THE MOMENT BUT CAN GET IT THE ADDRESS FOR YOU IF YOU DESIRE. Wisa Tue Apr 02 22:59:30 1996 Subject: 0571 Fate - Law of Reciprocal Action From: MARGARET MARY-THERESA BROWN, SUNY BUFFALO Date: Tue, 02 Apr 1996 12:56:12 -0500 (EST) Petra: >Men speak of deserved and undeserved fate, of reward and punishment, >retribution and karma. >All these are only part-designations of a Law resting in Creation: >>>THE LAW OF RECIPROCAL ACTION!<< The most insightful (IMO) analysis of the situation I've ever heard was: "Fuck Karma." Because what if its your place in the universe to do this or that? Who can say? Flapping around about Karma is IMO a new spin on the duality/ethics/good vs. evil thing and I don't want to do THAT again. IMO so long as you're doing your own true will, no need to worry about the rest. - Peggy - PS: I think that people who really have found their own true will are less prone to mess with other people than those who have not, and when they do mess with other people they do it well. PSPS: What does this have to do with alchemy anyway? Tue Apr 02 22:59:42 1996 Subject: 0572 Kerotakis From: Jfruther Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 13:18:56 -0500 Hallo, I am looking for a description and drawing of a Kerotakis. A Kerotakis is reflux condenser like the good old Pelican. I am interested in how this one works and the pro and contra of it. If someone can give me a drawing so I can build one, I would be happy. Second question is about using a Pelican. My one is made of transparent glas, are there any needs for a one made out of brown glas? If someone would fax a drwaing and explanation so please use: ++49-30-6935862 Thanks V.I.T.R.I.O.L. Tue Apr 02 22:59:51 1996 Subject: 0573 Violence for violence, murder... From: Mike Graffam Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 13:10:31 -0500 (EST) > But what if all you touch and all you see is the product of the > collective mind? That's the point. If all (apparent) sense perception is a product of the mind it is really no different than saying that all sense perception is colored by the mind (after all, in either case you cant be sure what is really there)... in which case all knowledge of such matters is thrown out. However, you can work with these things in a given manner (such as working from the assumption that cause and effect is true) because of the fact that your mind will order it in this manner consistently (for instance, have you ever heard a noise in your backyard at night and thought "it had no cause - it just happened?" No, of course not - you automatically think "What caused that?!" ..and maybe even jump up to find out what it was.) This consistent ordering is one of the reasons that I started studying Kabbalah, alchemy, astrology, tarot, and the like. All of them are symbolic systems that allow one to order data is certain ways. And if you interpret your surroundings in a different way, you will interact with them in a different way, allowing you to effect certain changes over it (and thus your life). Michael Graffam - [email protected] http://www1.mhv.net/~mgraffam - Mysticism, Philosophy and Art Page Make way for the mystic, the pure, the artistic, who, roused by a holy elation will dance till the dawn and rest in the morn as is fit for this fair celebration. (Aristophanes' Frogs) Tue Apr 02 23:00:02 1996 Subject: 0574 20th Century Alchemy: Ingaleses mystery solved! From: Tim Scott Date: Tue, 02 Apr 1996 11:09:04 -0800 Dear Friends: [If your interest in alchemy is strictly spiritual and/or academic, you probably won't be interested in the following. But if you are interested in its history or praxis you might find it worthwhile.] I'm sorry that this is a bit long, but I think this is an extremely important discovery in the history of alchemy. Some of the readers of this forum may remember that I have been trying for some time to answer the question "What happened to the Ingaleses?" For those of you who don't remember or are new to this forum, Richard Ingalese published a lecture in 1928 in which he claimed to have worked with his wife starting about 1910 in order to actually create the Philospher's Stone. He said that they succeeded in producing the White Stone 1917, and the Red Stone in 1920. I wrote an article in 1991 summarizing what I had been able to find up to that time. You can get it at http://www.levity.com/alchemy/Ingalese.html or ftp://ftp.vigra.com/special/tims/ingalese.txt and apparently other places according to some web searches. After Ingalese's lecture, the only information I could find from extensive library research was an article in the Occult Review in 1928 from a writer who visited Isabella Ingalese and was actually shown the Stone and allowed to sample it. After that--silence. To me, the question about their later life was of crucial importance. After all, as far as I know no one else in the 20th Century (except perhaps Archibald Cockren) credibly claimed to have any success whatever in applied alchemy. So I thought it would be of importance to see if the Ingaleses' life and health were prolonged or improved by the use of this concoction. They also had a small coterie of friends and supporters who were given regular dosages of the Stone. Now come Pat Zalewski and Art Kunkin, two regular contributors to this group (and both alchemists from way back) whose names are probably familiar to most readers. Pat encouraged me to research this, since the Ingaleses did this work in Los Angeles, only 120 miles from where I live. Recently, he was contacted by email from an interested party who kindly undertook to investigate this matter and forward the results to me (and I wish to thank this person [who wishes to remain anonymous] profusely. Art contacted his friend Steve Peak who brought his considerable research talents to bear. My friend Richard Merlin also graciously assisted me in my preliminary researches at the L. A. Public Library. In summary, our findings are as follows: Isabella Ingalese (born Mary Weller Robbins) died May 16, 1934 at L. A. County General Hospital aged 78 years, 3 months and 16 days. Cause of death was listed as "chronic myocarditis, decompensation edema, with contribution from chronic nephritis." She was cremated at Hollywood Cemetery on May 18. Richard Ingalese (born Richard Ward, name legally changed October 1898) died October 2, 1934, aged 71 years, 5 months and 11 days. The death cert listed "pulmonary edema acute, arteriosclerosis, softening of the brain and senility." He was also cremated at Hollywood Cemetery on October 4, 1934. It is interesting that the doctor notes that he attended the deceased from May 22, 1934, just a few days after his wife's death. There are also records of an incompetency action about that time; it seems that he was in very poor health for the last months of his life. The copy of Richard's will (unearthed and faxed to me by Steve Peak) is quite brief, and makes no mention of papers, notes or laboratory equipment. From one point of view, I guess this closes the case on whether the Ingaleses found the elixir of eternal life. I suppose it's conceivable that they could have faked all the records and documents relating to their deaths and other legal records, but it seems unlikely. From my point of view, the interesting research is just beginning. I still believe that it would be extremely fascinating, not to say valuable to historians and practitioners of alchemy, to attempt to located any unpublished laboratory notes and writings from the 17 years they did laboratory alchemy. (One of the things most maddening about alchemy is the paucity of any records of experimenters.) I realize that my quest might be chimerical, and that all these papers and equipment have probably long been discarded, but until I know that for sure, I will keep looking. My next area of research: who is Paul Hamilton? He was the neighbor who reported Richard's death, the executor of his estate, and Richard wrote in his will (dated March 7th, 1934) "I have no children, and in making this bequest, I am doing so in recognition of the care and attention shown to my beloved wife and myself by the said Paul Hamilton." Could Hamilton have inherited or conserved their priceless laboratory notes? I will gradually update my article, but for the time being this preliminary note will have to do. I will submit any substantive discoveries I make in future, and if Adam deems it of sufficient interest to propagate to the list I am sure he will do so. Stay tuned... Tim Scott Tue Apr 02 23:00:11 1996 Subject: 0575 M.A. Atwood's father Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 14:25:27 -0600 From: George Randall Leake III *no dice...this must be particularly rare...but I do have some helpful information: it was published in London, and the call number here at least is AP/4/Q5 (library of congress cataloguing using aacr2 rules)...no copy elsewhere at UT, but a few odd copies here and there of other issues...this other info should help... >I have a reference to a poem on alchemy, entitled 'The Enigma of alchemy' by >Thomas South, M.A. Atwood's father. This was printed in the Theosophical >Journal 'The Quest' Volume 10 (2) Jan 1919, pages 213-225. Does anyone know >this piece or have a copy of it? > >Adam McLean -G.Leake, 512-471-9117 [email protected] "To be ignorant of what occurred before you were born is to remain always a child." -Cicero "Oh age! oh letters! It is a joy to be alive!...Woe to you, barbarians!" -Ulrich von Hutten, 1518, Poet Laureate of the German Empire Tue Apr 02 23:01:45 1996 Subject: 0576 Karma in Western alchemy? From: Pat Zalewski Date: Wed, 3 Apr 96 08:03 NZST The only reference to karma/reincarnation as an original source document that I recall could possibly only come from either Plato or more importantly Origen. There are some biblical references that alchemists could have used but they are obscure. Pat zalewski Tue Apr 02 23:01:55 1996 Subject: 0577 Karma in Western alchemy? From: George Randall Leake III Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 14:03:27 -0600 >Adam McLean writes---> >I noted the recent discussions on "Violence for violence, murder...", and >"The law of reciprocal action", and this recalled to my mind that I had >never been able to find any significant references to the idea of karma and >reincarnation in early alchemical texts. *I tend to think that the tenet of 'all is connected' or 'as above, so below' to some extent can imply some notion of reciprocity or karma; this could also work with the reincarnation idea in this way, if all is connected, then would the spirit never leave the universe upon death? And that all matter is in essence eternal despite transformations? -G.Leake, 512-471-9117 [email protected] "To be ignorant of what occurred before you were born is to remain always a child." -Cicero "Oh age! oh letters! It is a joy to be alive!...Woe to you, barbarians!" -Ulrich von Hutten, 1518, Poet Laureate of the German Empire Tue Apr 02 23:02:05 1996 Subject: 0578 Law of Causality From: Rawn Clark Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 15:21:04 -0500 One aspect of the Law of Causality, is that our personal philosophies, pretty much shape our experience of the Universe. What we sow in the way of attitudes, preconceptions, biases, all determine our interactions with our physical surroundings. What we expect, or are only capable of seeing due to the rigidity (and often fragility) of our philosophy, effectively filters the infinite Universe, leaving us with but a small portion of it as our arena of conscious experience. When we expect to everywhere find evidence of a Severe Divine Reciprocation, we will find it. Similarly, if we are certain that there are Benign Laws, we will find them too. The filter of our limited understandings, serves as the cause for our resultant personal experience of the universe. Nowhere, can one Law be separated from another. To over-simplify about one Law while ignoring the simultaneous reality of the other Laws, is a common error of rationalization and strict intellectualization. This is the main reason why non-rational techniques like meditation are the basis of Hermetics...they open the awareness to more inclusive levels of mind. When placed in context with each other, these several Laws match pace with the finest Zen aphorisms! No matter how one experiences the Universe, neither endlessly long quoting of other's words nor pages of capitalized letters, will ever erase the fact that every other conceivable experience of the very same Universe is happening now, somewhere. The Hermetic Laws can be used to unlock the commonality within this seeming chaos; or they can be used to further limit our perceptions, effectively defining ourselves out of large chunks of the Infinite. Though the Kybalion presents them in a very intellectualized context, these Laws are not graspable in their entirety by so limited an aspect of the human mind as the rational. They require the solving and integrating power of meditation for their embrace, and subsequent experiment for their proof-in- the-fire. As the astral and mental senses are refined, the Universe reveals a much different face than is commonly seen, and it was from this perspective that the Kybalion was written (though through the filter of a Victorian bias!). :) Rawn Clark 2 Apr 96 Wed Apr 03 08:21:00 1996 Subject: 0579 M.A. Atwood's father From: LeGrand Date: Tue, 02 Apr 1996 16:20:15 -0700 (PDT) Document 1 Author: South, Thomas Contributors: Wilmshurst, W. L. (Editor) Title: The Enigma of Alchemy Publisher: Holmes Publishing Group Year: 1984 ISBN/Price: 0-916411-19-2 Trade Paper $3.95 This is still inprint and available from Holmes. It's quite brief. LeGrand [email protected] Wed Apr 03 08:21:15 1996 Subject: 0580 Fate - Law of Reciprocal Action From: Pat Zalewski Date: Wed, 3 Apr 96 12:44 NZST Peggy In Karma you have both the eastern and western perspective and they do differ. Its not all retribution. from the Western viewpoint the writings based on the Edgar cayce readings are in my opinion the best. There are all manner of books out there on cayce and reincarnation/karma. Just do a search on A.R.E. or Edgar Cayce and it will give you quite a bit of reference material. I would suggest though that if you read cayce that you be very careful at the phraseology in the readings, as they have more then one meaning,. But I warn you, if you do do a study of cayce and karma, the material in the readings is so vast that it will take years to wade through.If you are unsure as to who what cayce is, first read `Sleeping Prophet' by Stern, as it will give you a good background information of the man and his readings. All the Cayce readings are now on CD rom with good search software. In one readings Cayce made the comment that on this planet there are people over a thousand years old. Whether that relates to alchemy or not I do not know but it is a good reference point. Pat zalewski Wed Apr 03 08:21:25 1996 Subject: 0581 M.A. Atwood's father From: Jon Marshall Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 10:24:49 -0800 On Apr 2, 10:16am, Alchemy forum wrote: > Subject: 0567 M.A. Atwood's father > I have a reference to a poem on alchemy, entitled 'The Enigma of alchemy' by > Thomas South, M.A. Atwood's father. This was printed in the Theosophical > Journal 'The Quest' Volume 10 (2) Jan 1919, pages 213-225. Does anyone know > this piece or have a copy of it? hi i'm sure someone else will have told you but i'm sure this is the peice published by JD holmes as the Enigma of Alchemy edited my WL Wilmhurst of which the editor says "its perusal may prompt the comment that if the world has lost the benefit of the author's exposition of Alchemy, it has been spared the infliction of a long and turgid poem...." The opening couplet AUTHOR of all, Light! all directing, Thou That in Thy wisdom know'st the when and how suggests the general tenor It also perhaps suggests a more cynical reason for the destruction of his daughter's book, namely that it was so much better than his..... And i'd still say that that the Suggestive inquiry itself gives the best exposition of the possible philosophic connections between alchemy and late neo-platonism of any text i have seen, and does suggest that a further investigation of this might be fruitful jon Wed Apr 03 08:21:34 1996 Subject: 0582 How to produce gold from platinum From: Joe Champion Date: Tue, 02 Apr 1996 18:34:10 -0700 The quest for the philosopher's stone continues. I cannot say that I personally believe in the stone, however, I do believe in the transmutation of one element to another. When people get close to the answer the farther they remove themselves from society. This is accomplished for different reasons, the most commmon being greed. For six years I have devoted my life to the technical story of alchemy and it is a reality that anyone can reproduce. Also, it has been the culprit of billions of dollars of lost money from investors around the world. This is not an advertisement, but reality. If you would like to understand and produce your own precious metals the procedure is laid out in total detail at the following URL. http://www.netzone.com/~discpub/ht_pt.html No secrets, just repeatable emperical data. Also, I have covered several topics of how people have lost millions of dollars which can be found at: http://www.netzone.com/~discpub As a practioner of nuclear transmutation (alchemy) I enjoy seeing the postings to this group and I offer my thank's to the moderator for allowing me to join. Joe Champion email [email protected] http://www.netzone.com/~discpub Wed Apr 03 08:21:43 1996 Subject: 0583 Gold Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 23:38:10 -0500 Subject: Gold You know: You can make physical gold but it won't stay in that form, while you can become gold and that is eternal. Wisa Wed Apr 03 08:21:51 1996 Subject: 0584 Tangents in. Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 23:46:46 -0500 From: photopro > >This consistent ordering is one of the reasons that I started >studying Kabbalah, alchemy, astrology, tarot, and the like. >All of them are symbolic systems that allow one to order data >is certain ways. And if you interpret your surroundings in a >different way, you will interact with them in a different way, >allowing you to effect certain changes over it (and thus your >life). Mike Graffam All the Mystical sciences are also and primarily - "tangents in" toward understanding who you are and becoming that. The Secret of the Universe, of all the ages, is that everything, being and symbol is literally You. You are all there is and you are now striving to recollect your SELF! Wisa Wed Apr 03 08:22:10 1996 Subject: 0585 Putrefaction Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 23:56:16 -0500 From: photopro Here is a recent meditation that I did on putrefaction after reading a Rosicrucian essay on it by G. Plummer. Wisa Above and under the Sun are references to THE TREE OF LIFE . Putrefaction 3/28/96 What shall come out of the dead body? What has died that shall not live eternally? What is the purpose of cycles of life and death when regeneration can uprise a being to heights that need not 'body'? Is there a height that bestows freedom /triumph of the Spirit over flesh and grave? How can one know? At what point does the Master with the Golden Body give that up to enter the great unknown by crossing over the threshold to eternity/immortality/infinity? What is gone? Is anything gone if there is only One, and all is that One and all is in the Mind of God who is all encompassing? Are we just a thread out of and in The Mind therefore just a seperation or are we the causal reflection (with election) of the whole that God sees himself through? (As above so below. As below so above). When parts of us die to be replaced (humanity by trans-humanity by godliness) are they gone or changed-transmuted into something new? Why are the sum of the parts of the whole greater than the addition of the individual parts would have been thought t Why does it smell so odious and repelling to most.? Is it our receptors that are misinterpreting? Is this the odour, the savor that the Bible tells is so pleasing to God? Who is God when there is only One and One raised and purified Man reunites by reco Death: dying - life: living - flying...steps along the way of Return. The Memory of Perfection, The recollection of Who I Am. Death and resurrection. It was always there waiting for me to awake , affirm, return...to know that I always was, I always will be, I Am. Do I smell something? (joke) Perhaps putrefaction- the breaking down of the material body compounds, decomposition- the freeing of the old to make room for the new! There are two types of deaths within this illusion that allows room for true vision. 1. Mortal death 2. Immortal death. That of transcendental death with consciousness. Not as you/I /we are now but in potential which is do-able in the now. Within immortal death does cessation of life activities have to cease? No because change is taking place things will go on. However, this is my meditation always...Change your View (perspective) that changes you, your world and that includes life experi I am inspired to give to you the Secret Wisdom of all the Ages. And that is: whatever is spoken about and whatever is used as symbol...it is always YOU. YOU are all things under and above the Sun. Know this and read with wisdom. Wisa Wed Apr 03 21:47:04 1996 Subject: 0586 Fate - Law of Reciprocal Action From: [email protected] Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 09:52:32 +0100 At 23:03 02/04/96 +0000, you wrote: >From: MARGARET MARY-THERESA BROWN, SUNY BUFFALO >Date: Tue, 02 Apr 1996 12:56:12 -0500 (EST) > > >Petra: >>Men speak of deserved and undeserved fate, of reward and punishment, >>retribution and karma. > >>All these are only part-designations of a Law resting in Creation: >>>>THE LAW OF RECIPROCAL ACTION!<< > >The most insightful (IMO) analysis of the situation I've ever >heard was: "Fuck Karma." > >Because what if its your place in the universe to do this or that? >Who can say? Flapping around about Karma is IMO a new spin on >the duality/ethics/good vs. evil thing and I don't want to do >THAT again. > >IMO so long as you're doing your own true will, no need to >worry about the rest. > >- Peggy - > >PS: I think that people who really have found their own true will > are less prone to mess with other people than those who have > not, and when they do mess with other people they do it well. > >PSPS: What does this have to do with alchemy anyway? > Faith and Fate have everything to do with the Sophic Art but as Petra points out it is not an excuse for stting back and doing nothing. The Philosophers all say the it is the gift of God, by this they mean Fate. Ask yourself would you risk all even you life for your Art, if the answer is no then you waste your time. Such a risk requires Faith. Such faith is only avilable once on has discovered what Crowley termed true will. Faith is the Inward Prime Matter, it is that simple, childs play. Wed Apr 03 21:47:15 1996 Subject: 0587 Wieser Books From: JACK HANDLER Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 04:59:59 -0500 The fact is S. WIESER Books Moved out of their NYC address some months ago, leaving no forwarding address. The store was everything you say it was, and I miss them very much. Imagine going to yr old familiar bookstore one day and finding only an empty room. Not even a note in the window. Telephone info reports only that there is "No Listing." I have been told - vaguely - that Weiser's maintains a mail-order operation out of some northern state, but I've been unable to find an address or telephone number for such. Does anyone have their mail-order address / telephone number? I would greatly appreciate this information. &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&& "... WIESERS BOOKSTORE IN NYC THIS IS THE BIGGEST SOURCE OF OCCULT AND HERMETIC AND PHILOSOPHIES OF DIFFERENT KINDs (ANCIENT MYSTERIES). IT'S OFF LEXINGTON AVE. IN THE LOW STREETS. I FORGET AT THE MOMENT BUT CAN GET IT THE ADDRESS FOR YOU IF YOU DESIRE. Wisa..." Wed Apr 03 21:47:25 1996 Subject: 0588 royal art From: Anthony McCormick Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 22:52:13 +1000 (EST) i tend to think there is a secret road,a personal way for me to meet my reasons to acheive,sublimation.drown in the ocean of union,fire.please your own desire.let us be diligent in our discrimination."seperate the fine from the gross".dare i call practical alchemy-common science.look within for the light.seek companions for mutual love.by gods grace will fulfilment..... have i said enough,is this what i wanted to write.i did it.thanks for the place yours sincerely stephen Wed Apr 03 21:47:37 1996 Subject: 0589 Fate - Law of Reciprocal Action From: OISPEGGY Date: Wed, 03 Apr 1996 09:21:27 -0500 (EST) >From: Pat Zalewski >In Karma you have both the eastern and western perspective and they do >differ. Its not all retribution. from the Western viewpoint the writings >based on the Edgar cayce readings are in my opinion the best. There are all >manner of books out there on cayce and reincarnation/karma. Just do a search ..... This sounds like something worth looking at. Who publishes the CD rom? >In one readings Cayce made the comment that on this planet >there are people over a thousand years old. Whether that relates to alchemy >or not I do not know but it is a good reference point. Maybe karma does have something tangentially to do with alchemy, because its a universal law -- if it exists at all. But, even if it does exist, I'm not convinced that it is effective for me to worry about everything I do (or don't do) because of karmic implications -- its too complicated and impossible to figure out. I find it more effective to view my actions as controlled folly and look for the path with heart -- YMMV of course. I suspect that many people (besides myself) have had dreams or intuitions or visions that seem to come from someone/place else. I find these too poignant to dwell on. Again, YMMV. - Peggy - Wed Apr 03 21:47:46 1996 Subject: 0590 Tangents in From: joshua geller Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 09:15:57 -0800 wisa writes: > All the Mystical sciences are also and primarily - "tangents in" toward > understanding who you are and becoming that. that is certainly one, but hardly the only way to look at it. >The Secret of the > Universe, of all the ages, is that everything, being and symbol is > literally You. and it is equally not-you. josh Wed Apr 03 21:48:01 1996 Subject: 0591 Gold From: joshua geller Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 09:13:53 -0800 Alchemy forum writes: > Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 23:38:10 -0500 > Subject: Gold > You know: You can make physical gold but it won't stay in that > form, could you clarify this statement please? if it was gold once and became something else, spontaneously as it were, it doesn't really meet the definition of 'gold', or at least so it seems to me. > while you can become gold and that is eternal. Wisa yes, outward direction and inward direction. but is there a real difference, ultimately? some work upon themselves, some work upon the world, some work upon both. josh Wed Apr 03 21:48:10 1996 Subject: 0592 Violence for violence, murder... From: Ros Bangham Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 13:04:23 -0500 >From: Beat Krummenacher >Date: 31 Mar 96 18:59:09 EST > >Petra wrote: >>Violence for violence, murder for murder, but thank heavens also, kindness for >kindness, and love for love.< Petra's Violence for violence etc reminds me of the Eye for an Eye law that man built. It is not a Natural Law. There is no divine law of Karma to support it. The suggestion that Karma is a kind of moral balance is a Western cultural distortion of the concept. No one is locked into any 'future' regardless of past actions or deeds. Each moment of your life brings forth an infinite array of possible choices. You will choose according to your personal beliefs. Some beliefs you will be aware of. Most are hidden. eg: If you believe one must suffer to be 'spiritual', then you will suffer. Your suffering will not however, aid you on your spiritual path. Though if that has been your belief, then you will believe it does. If your suffering gets too great, you may turn away from your spiritual quest, feeling angry that it caused you such pain. What caused the pain was your belief in it. The choice is always and only yours. Ros Thu Apr 04 10:08:27 1996 Subject: 0593 Gold From:George Randall Leake III Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 16:09:45 -0600 >From: joshua geller >some work upon themselves, some work upon the world, some work upon >both. *or to put another way "some are born great, some achieve greatness, and some have greatness thrust upon em!" Thu Apr 04 10:08:39 1996 Subject: 0594 Kerotakis From: Claude Gagnon Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 17:51:51 -0500 (EST) Have you take a look in Forbes' classic *A short history of the art of distillation*, reedited by Brill.? Claude Gagnon Thu Apr 04 10:08:49 1996 Subject: 0595 Eye for Eye... From: Petra Gottlieb Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 11:12:36 GMT To: [email protected] Subject: An Eye for an Eye... In response to Ros Bangham's: >>Petra's Violence for violence etc reminds me of the Eye for an Eye law that man built. It is not a Natural Law. There is no divine law of Karma to support it.<< This is how I said it: >>>>>So, generally speaking. Man's FREE WILL only lies in the FREEDOM OF CHOICE that he has with every minute, every second of his life. The CONSEQUENCES , however , (good or bad depending on his choice) lies outside his power. They come rolling at him in accordance to THE COSMIC LAW OF RECIPROCAL ACTION = CAUSE AND EFFECT, THE LAW OF REPERCUSSION. In the Old Testament this same Law is described as: AN EYE FOR AN EYE - A TOOTH FOR A TOOTH, which man erroneously interpreted that he can take revenge in his own hand, disregarding the command: VENGEANCE IS MINE ! says the Lord (because it is embedded in HIS ETERNAL AND IMMUTABLE COSMIC LAW! It takes effect by itself without the interference of man. Herein also lies THE JUSTICE OF GOD!). In the New Testament this same Law is described as : WHAT A MAN SOWS HE MUST REAP. If one sows wheat one can't reap barley. Likewise it is with our thoughts, words and deeds. They are like seeds, and the harvest is according to what we have sown. Violence for violence, murder for murder, but thank heavens also, kindness for kindness, and love for love. <<<<< .......meaning that "fate", "reward and punishment", "retribution" , "karma" all take effect in accordance to this great universal COSMIC LAW OF RECIPROCAL ACTION (Das Gesetz der Wechselwirkung), and that the "Eye for an eye" just means that one must reap what one has sown, the SAME KIND. Trust that THE LAW OF RECIPROCAL ACTION is NOT man made!!! --- Petra Christiane Gottlieb [email protected] --- WO KEIN LIEB, DA IST KEIN KUNST! (Paracelsus) WITHOUT LOVE THERE IS NO ART! Thu Apr 04 10:08:59 1996 Subject: 0596 Weiser Books From: Charla J. Williams Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 20:32:34 -0800 (PST) > I have been told - vaguely - that Weiser's maintains a mail-order > operation out of some northern state, but I've been unable to find an > address or telephone number for such. Try: Samuel Weiser Inc. Box 612 York Beach, Maine 03910-0612 I enjoyed having Weisers, Magickal Childe, and The Bottom Line within walking distance of each other when I lived in NY. This was when Weisers was on Broadway, having last lived in NY in 1981. Regards, Charla Thu Apr 04 10:09:19 1996 Subject: 0597 Violence for violence, murder... From: Barry Carter Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 22:18:44 +0000 Ros Bangham wrote: > No one is locked into any > 'future' regardless of past actions or deeds. Each moment of your life > brings forth an infinite array of possible choices. You will choose > according to your personal beliefs. Some beliefs you will be aware of. Most > are hidden. > eg: If you believe one must suffer to be 'spiritual', then you will > suffer. Your suffering will not however, aid you on your spiritual path. > Though if that has been your belief, then you will believe it does. If your > suffering gets too great, you may turn away from your spiritual quest, > feeling angry that it caused you such pain. What caused the pain was your > belief in it. The choice is always and only yours. Rawn wrote: Nowhere, can one Law be separated from another. To over-simplify about one Law while ignoring the simultaneous reality of the other Laws, is a common error of rationalization and strict intellectualization. This is the main reason why non-rational techniques like meditation are the basis of Hermetics...they open the awareness to more inclusive levels of mind. When placed in context with each other, these several Laws match pace with the finest Zen aphorisms! No matter how one experiences the Universe, neither endlessly long quoting of other's words nor pages of capitalized letters, will ever erase the fact that every other conceivable experience of the very same Universe is happening now, somewhere. The Hermetic Laws can be used to unlock the commonality within this seeming chaos; or they can be used to further limit our perceptions, effectively defining ourselves out of large chunks of the Infinite. In my work I occasionally get to listen to Native American elders talk about their spiritual beliefs. Their beliefs are not that profound but their speech patterns move the mind in circles. These circles of thought have a profound effect on my conciousness. It is like being given vision to see other worlds hidden in this one. Poets do this too. E.E. Cummings called it "the precision which creates movement". Alchemical allegory and the allegory of scripture from the Bhagavad Gita to the Gospel of Thomas use this ability to move the mind of the reader in a specific direction. Some of the purpose of the alchemical allegory is not to obscure the technique but rather to reveal the mental or spiritual poise which is necessary to do the deed. This poise can be reached through meditation but it must be cultivated to the point where it becomes a "walking" meditation. We create our own reality, there indeed is no other law. The discussion is about how we create our own reality. Karma is something we carry with us, encoded in our beliefs. There are at least two ways out of karma; suffering and the subsequent realization that the belief in separation is the cause of the suffering or seeking out one's beliefs and watching their interaction with one's life. I called the second way the law of grace because that is what Edgar Cayce called it. Words can only circle the Object-of-Which-We-Speak; pointing, always, toward it until the listener fixes their attention on the Object the words are pointing at. Or as T.S. Eliot said: Trying to learn to use words, and every attempt Is a wholly new start, and a different kind of failure Because one has only learnt to get the better of words For the thing one no longer has to say, or the way in which One is no longer disposed to say it. And so each venture Is a new beginning, a raid on the inarticulate With shabby equipment always deteriorating In the general mess of imprecision of feeling, Undisciplined squads of emotion. The principle which allows free will is that infinity extends both ways in time, all ways in space and every way in probability. (Have I missed anything?) We can each choose our next moment from an infinite number of probable realities. Sort of solipsism for the masses. Barry Carter Blue Mountain Native Forest Alliance Voice 541-523-3357 Fax 541-523-9438 Insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results. Thu Apr 04 10:09:33 1996 Subject: 0598 Information about herbs; Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 18:05:05 -0800 From: Clark Stillman Thanks to Gilbert Arnold for the lead to the USDA for herb info. I've linked to it for my visitors. People continue to discover the value of herbs and their place in the natural order, whether for physical health or spiritual ritual. In this case, there is also a strong connection to cultures and civilizations. Insights like these can only serve to enrich our lives. Clark Stillman *********************************************************************** Access:New Age All Things--Esoteric and Spiritual, Occult and Metaphysical--All Things http://www.AccessNewAge.com *********************************************************************** Thu Apr 04 16:28:00 1996 Subject: 0599 Weiser Books From: Clinton R. Armitage Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 09:05:19 -0500 >From: JACK HANDLER >Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 04:59:59 -0500 > > >Does anyone have their mail-order address / telephone number? I would >greatly appreciate this information. This is the mail order address in my file to order from their catalog: "... Samuel Weiser,Inc. Box 612, York Beach,Maine 03910 Phone:207-363-4393 Telex:697-1240 -=-=- Thu Apr 04 16:28:08 1996 Subject: 0600 Fate - Law of Reciprocal Action From: PEGGY Date: Thu, 04 Apr 1996 09:34:32 -0500 (EST) Peggy: >>The most insightful (IMO) analysis of the situation I've ever >>heard was: "Fuck Karma." >> >>Because what if its your place in the universe to do this or that? >>Who can say? Flapping around about Karma is IMO a new spin on >>the duality/ethics/good vs. evil thing and I don't want to do >>THAT again. >> >>IMO so long as you're doing your own true will, no need to >>worry about the rest. From: [email protected] >Faith and Fate have everything to do with the Sophic Art but as Petra points >out it is not an excuse for stting back and doing nothing. The Philosophers >all say the it is the gift of God, by this they mean Fate. I don't see where this has anything to do with my comments (above). I'd be interested to read why some think it is effective to live as though there is karma, whether it exists or not. I choose to ignore karma and instead steer by "true will" and "the path with heart." Not that my way is best, but its what works for me right now. >Ask yourself would you risk all even you life for your Art, if the answer >is no then you waste your time. No way! I would not risk my security for my esoteric interests and I would certainly not risk my life over it. I would risk my life for only a few people on this planet and not for any ideas or philosophies. I wouldn't give up my ideas but I see no point in being killed over them. >Such a risk requires Faith. >Such faith is only avilable once on has discovered what Crowley termed >true will. >Faith is the Inward Prime Matter, it is that simple, childs play. Erk. This sound like one of those stardust-in-the-eyes idealistic ideas. Why set yourself up like this, eh? We were given far more tools that just that of faith. Nothing wrong with using Hod and applying some rational tools and skepticism. Faith alone would send me spinning into fluffy-bunny land. YMMV of course. Regards, - Peggy - PS: What if the Unibomber is really an innocent alchemist, and that is why he has chemicals in his cabin? |
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