FROM ULTRACAPACITY TO CAPACITY

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2-4. TAKING ADVANTAGE OF HIGH LEVEL ENERGY

SCIENCE AND EXPERIENCE

Murakami:  I've heard there is an energy type called "Defense."
Yamagishi:  Yes, there is.  For example, this energy is useful in removing energy from an undesirable person.
Murakami:  Do you mean it is effective against cases in which a person's energy is bad?
Yamagishi:  When a person having bad intentions approaches to us, his energy is removed in order to avoid malicious conducts.
The amount of energy removed depends on the intensity of the conduct.  Regarding people who want to use it against individuals having good intentions, they can't even talk since strength abandons them completely.
But if you neglect it, it can become a contradiction.  For example, both people may have good and bad intentions simultaneously.
Since this type of energy is difficult to use, it is not made availble to common people.
Murakami:  It sounds like sorcery.
Yamagishi:  Once before, I tried this energy on plants.  Since, without agrochemicals, plants and vegetables become food for insects, I tried to protect them from those insects and from viruses, too.  I introduced the energy of "Defense" in vegetables I had planted in my office balcony. In this way, all insects disappeared and leaves stopped from being abruptly eaten.
Because it is very effective in agriculture, there is a place where it has been used.
When the experiment was tried in a rice plantation located in Okayama prefecture, despite being an icy year, more than seven sacks were harvested.  And the following year, when it was done during a very dry season, eight or nine sacks were harvested then.
Murakami:  Is it a high figure compared to other plantation fields?
Yamagishi:  During the same icy year, other fields couldn't harvest any rice at all; and during the dry year, all rice dried in those fields.  Therefore, the one we tried was the only plantation field able to produce rice.  Some of it was sent to me later, and it was delicious.
Nowadays there are plans to apply the technique in Nara prefecture.
Murakami:  There is something I learnt when I studied psychoanalysis:  A French physiologist named Bernard created a concept known as "Homeostasis," which establishes that since the variation of the internal environment surrounding cells is a matter closely related to life and dead, the only way to survive is to avoid an unsuitable environment.
In spite of the fact that all beings have gone through a long evolutive process which goes from unicellular to multicellular organisms, and from  aquatic to terrestrial organisms, the environment directly surrounding cells is composed of  histological liquid, and changes in its characteristics or conditions represent a very significant influence in cell functions.  For this reason, one of the roles of cells is to maintain those characteristics constant.
Those factors that have to be maintained constant, are physical ones, as for example:  Osmosis pressure, cell temperature, hydrogen ions concentration; and chemicals like nutrients, diverse electrolytes, enzymes and hormones.
Even though these factors have been already discovered, they are not enough to maintain a constant condition, so I believe more factors will be found in the future.
I dare to think that a valid hypothesis would be to consider energy, as you call it, among those factors.
Yamagishi:  Probably that constant condition exists in energy itself.
Murakami:  When I hear about plants, I have the impression that energy is closely related to cells.
Yamagishi:  I think so, since animals and plants are very sensitive to the influence of energy.
Murakami:  Anyway, I still think we should stop calling it "energy," and look for an appropriate term, for example in Greek.
Yamagishi:  A proper word could be any word (laughter).

SLIGHT DIFFERENCE BETWEEN PARANORMAL AND PHYSICAL PHENOMENA

Murakami:  I believe that what we call energy is an element existing in cells.
Yamagishi:  I believe that, too.  For instance, if we artificially create a primitive atmosphere, and produce electric discharges, a lot of life-bulding substances such as amino acids and proteins are formed.  However, life cannot be created.  I assume life starts once energy has arrived.
Evolution goes from a unicellular organism to a multicellular one, to the formation of tissues and organs, and to the multiplication of cells.  It is said that men has 60 trillion cells, and each one of them has energy running in one direction. I think they have an energy vector (pointing at the same direction) which is the flow of energy.
We can say that if the flow of energy is healthy, living beings like humans and plants are healthy.
Murakami:  Although it might not be a good example, let's say there is a very weak person because of terminal cancer, or because of his advanced age, and that he continues losing strength more and more until he dies.  If energy has anything to do with life:  would it mean that energy diminishes gradually until it disappears together with life?
Yamagishi:  Certainly it must be so.  The soul or energetic body of that person fades.
Murakami:  From ancient times, people have talked about the soul or the spirit.  But, since it is something that can´t be seen or validated, people think about it as mysticism or imagine it as having human form and is not dealt with in a  scientific way.  Even me, I don´t know if it exists because I´ve never seen it.  However, I believe that some time in the future the spirit could be measured from a physical point of view.  Although, presumably it can be the same as what we call energy at present.
Yamagishi:  I believe it is.  I think the soul isn't something made by someone, but something spontaneous.  I assume that those who believe God created the spirit are inverting roles. If that is believed, the only interpretation accepted would be religious.
It is a physical phenomenon not yet understood.  Even ultracapacity is a physical phenomenon not understood.
Murakami:  Believing that the easiest way to understand it is by considering it under God's control would be religious.
Yamagishi:  That´s right.
Murakami:  Once you said that when a person is traced, you can get acquainted with that person immediately, even if you haven't met him before.  I´m sorry to ask you a question as if it were about a fairy tale: What do you think of  the existence of life outside the earth, as for example in Mars?
Yamagishi:  Maybe I would know more about it if I made some research.  However, I think there is not life, although I don't discard the possibility that there might be.
Murakami:  Frequently, people who claim to possess ultracapacity and mystics talk about these topics.  They like to affirm things like "there is life in Venus."
Yamagishi:  That´s about a judgment of value about how to think and how to use the capacity possessed by each one.
People who possess any kind of capacity tend to feel important.  If the reasoning of a person is made based on an assumption, and if that person remains reasoning and creating on that assumption, they end up believing that the whole thing is true despite being based just on a supposition.  For this reason, they end up having religious thoughts or converting themselves in religious people.
But that´s a big mistake, and since they have acted that way in spite of possessing a special capacity, they haven´t been able to inherit it to humanity as a valuable thing.  I think that wasn't more than vanity.
I have the impression that religion has those characteristics.  I believe that perspective of the world must be treated more serioulsly.
Murakami:  Yes, indeed.  No matter if those people say there is life in Venus.
Yamagishi:  It doesn´t mean anything.
Murakami:  Because until now it hasn´t been proved (laughter).
Yamagishi:  No one has ever talked about a place on earth where it can be corroborated, because if they said that, you would just go there and do it (laughter).  If by chance their guess were right, that would be fine, but if not, that would be shameful.
But people in general like this kind of stories.  Certainly their concepts must be ruled by the same kind values.
Murakami:  For example, everybody likes to guess if the figures hidden on the other side of the cards are stars or circles.  Regarding that, I give more credit to the person who discovered X rays than to the one who guess right what figure is on the other side of the card by seeing through it.
Yamagishi:  Certainly.
Murakami:  No doubt about it.
Yamagishi:  That´s much more meaningful.
Murakami:  A million times.

APPROACH TO SCIENCE

Yamagishi:  What is important is for capacity to become something everybody can use.  In that sense, I believe science is extraordinary when stating that "when something is done,something else occurs as a result."
But, since it is very strict about things which can´t be measured scientifically, the existence of energy can´t be determined.
When something can´t be measured, it is considered non-existent.  However, avant-gardist scientists know there are many things science is ignorant of.
There are things that can't be measured or reproduced, and people having a superior knowledge are aware of this.  Surprisingly, this kind of people understand us better.  However, there is another kind of people who think the opposite way.
Murakami:  Does it mean that, within a context of superior knowledge, there are a lot of things not yet known? Apparently, regarding brain medicine, there are many unknown aspects, too.
Yamagishi:  That´t correct.  Those denying different possibilities are people who just accept the world they have read on school books.  For them, if it isn't written there, it can´t be understood and therefore it can´t exist either.
Murakami:  One more problem is the existence of another kind of people who after listening about the existence of unknown things,  immediately adopt mystical believes.
Yamagishi:  Even among physicians, there is a wide variety of  beliefs.
Murakami:  Science has a limit and that's inevitable because it depends on human knowledge.
Yamagishi:  Yes, that's something men have created.
Murakami:  I believe that the marking of the limits between what is known and unknown is an aspect corresponding to science.
Yamagishi:  I think it is right to accept that we don´t know things that in fact we don´t know.  Phenomena should be recognized as such, no matter if it can´t be verified immediately.  It is important to give it time.
From a religious position, it is frequently said that there are things that can´t be understood by science, but I believe that´s wrong too.  Furthermore, I think the contribution that science has given to humanity has been greater than that given by religion.
Murakami:  To convert what you do into science, I believe it would be convenient to measure results by following  clinical methods instead of concentrations in physical, chemical or advanced quantum mechanical theories.
Yamagishi:  In spite of being a physical phenomenon which until now hasn't been measured, I believe the thing  here is to increase reproducibility.  If it is used in items like CD's, reproducibility increases and ambiguity is discarded.
In addition, I believe it is important to gather a lot of experiences about things which can't be understood by reasoning.  Even regarding Chinese medicine, the cause for being effective is not well determined yet, but after being around or thousands of years, every body knows it is effective.  For this reason, the collection of evidence is impotant.
Murakami:  Would it be a kind of clinical record collection?
Yamagishi:  It would be all right if we changed our direction and say it is fine that people can't comprehend us.  But I think my actual desire is that everybody  understands us.  However, explaining it is a waste of time, so I´d rather continue  creating more effective techniques.It would be enough If more people were helped through them it would be enough.
For instance, although "Papaberu" can decrease hypertension, according to Professor Yano, who is a physician, it is impossible to completely eradicate it.  Even though medicine can momentarily lowered hypertension, if the patient suspends it, his pressure will go back to the original level.  However, since hypertension lowers when listening to "Papaberu" I would say it is a completely new technique. This is a sort of demonstration, and I am trying to create many of this kind. To leave scientific demonstration to others is fine, I believe.
Murakami:  In fact, I think it's enough to do that demonstration after going through the results.
Yamagishi:  I´ll dive into it.

THE ENIGMA OF DYING

Murakami:  Among the things you've been doing, there are many which I understand now, aren´t there?
Regarding "Papaberu," I've learnt it doesn't exert influence directly on the brain first and then on other parts of the body, but it acts directly upon the muscles. Therefore, we have reached the conclusion that a different element must exist in cells.
Yamagishi:  I believe aging is caused by muscle fatigue or tension.  Maybe it's the same as cancer.  I think if we could be permanently free of tension, there woudn't be a reason for the existence of cancer.
Muscles harden in old people, so their immunity is scarce and drugs don't produce adequate effects on them.
As I said before, if muscles are tense, toxic wastes are not properly eliminated and nutrients don't circulate as they should, provoking severe deterioration.  I think this situation gradually turns into diseases like senile weakness, and eventually causes dead.
Murakami:  Regarding aging and dead, although there is an explanation from a social viewpoint concerning demographycal aspects, from a medical perspective the reason for dying is still uncertain.
Yamagishi:  All we know is that dead exists.
Murakami:  Once I read about a theory which stated that a "gene of dead" existed, and that people die once that gene is activated.  That theory affirmed that the time when the activation occurred was precisely the moment when people were ready to procreate.  That means that this gene is activated when people are ready to give rise to a new generation.
The affirmation that in order to prolonge life sexual relations must be avoided made that theory ridiculous.
It was written in a medical book  in a science fiction sense.
Yamagishi:  To make love frequently does't mean to die prematurely (laughter).
Murakami:  Except for children in poor low-income neighborhoods who start doing it at the age of 7 or 8 and who usually die very young.
Yamagishi:  But, that's due to sanitary conditions (laughter).
Murakami:  Absolutely, I think so too (laughter).
Yamagishi:  Concerning aging, not only muscles, but veins are important too.  In addition, the function of the thymus is being closely observed at present.  It is said that people having a strong thymus live longer.
Murakami:  How does it work?
Yamagishi:  It is related to the immunological function.  In simpler words, it's the one that says "this is me." nbsp; For example, it destroys viruses or cancerous cells without damaging or destroying normal ones.  If  the work of the thymus is active, resistance to infectious sickness is strenghtened.  During childhood the thymus is big, and with the passing of years, it gradually becomes smaller.  So, while getting smaller it can make mistakes by losing its ability to accurately distiguish its own cells and eventually may destroy itself.  Although there are many unknown things about it yet, it is believed that it might be closely related to aging.
Murakami:  So, is this an organ in charge of immunity?
Yamagishi:  Yes, it is.  Since immunity, in some way, is a function consisting in differentiating between what belongs to us and what doesn't, and if it makes a mistake it may destroy itself.  It is also said that the thymus is related to allergies.  We created a software which activates the thymus.  We proved it is effective against allergies.
Murakami:  Talking about real effects, at present I play tennis with my son, and since he is very excited about this sport, sometimes we play up to four hours on Sundays.  In the past, playing one or two hours were enough to be unable to wake up the next morning.  In addition, climbing stairs was very hard.  But now, as I said, I can play up to four hours.
When I started to think that something strange was happening, my wife asked me in a patronizing tone
if I din't know that the CD "Papaberu" nbsp; was constanly playing in my bedside table.
Certainly it is strange that I don't feel tired now.
Yamagishi:  In my it takes case, after climbing mountains, the time muscular pain to appear has become shorter.
In the past, the pain began several days later.  Then I started to feel it the following day after, and then the same day.  Now, I don't feel it them at all.  I think the reson is that muscles relax with "Papaberu" and the elimination of toxic wastes is activated.  Actually, It has been convenient to develop it.
Murakami:  It is something innovative.  And you don't feel any symptoms; at most, you are surprised because  you don't get tired.
Yamagishi:  At the beginning, if you listen directly through earphones, muscles suddenly relax.  Then, since in a general sense veins are muscles too, people realize that different parts of their bodies start to relax.
Murakami:  The first time I fell sound asleep.
Yamagishi:  Actually that's how you end up.  If earphones aren't used, since the action of energy is weaker, you change gradually without noticing.  However, it takes longer.
Murakami:  Once you introduced energy in a CD containing Beethoven's Ninth Symphony. After listening to the chorus I fell asleep, and then I found myself surrounded by happiness (laughter).
Yamagishi: (Laughter)
 
WHEN STRESS IS ELIMINATED, PEOPLE BECOME MORE ACTIVE

Murakami:  In addition, something strange happened to me.  It seems that sinful desires or low instincts have disappeared.
In the past, I did what most men do, while being at a hotel with my family, when I saw a woman I felt a sinful desire.  But now, surprisingly, it doesn´t happen to me.  I think the reason might be that I am not stressed anymore.
Yamagishi:  In men, sexual appetite and sexual desire are activated when any dissatisfaction is being experienced.  Or maybe, an attack of anger can be the response to dissatisfaction or frustration.  In that kind of situations, through the secretion of dopamine, a sensation of tranquillity is felt and homeostasis is maintained.
On the contrary, regarding unstressed or satisfied people, they don't need to induce that kind of state.
Furthermore, since they don't overeat, they don't get fat.  When stress is reduced, some people lower their weight until reaching an ideal one.
Murakami:  Then, must I be fat?
Yamagishi:  I can't say (laughter).
Murakami:  Our concept about people who don't have sinful desires or any other kind of unfulfilled desires is that they are calm, as if they were hermits or monks.  However, regarding mental aspects, I feel very active.  Perhaps, the reason is that I received "Clock."
Yamagishi:  It leaves you very active, doesn't it?
Murakami:  Yes, it does.
Yamagishi:  Things can be perceived more rapidly.
Murakami:  I feel that my ability to deal with information is much faster. For example, it happens to me when I take notes or when I find something to write about in a novel.
Yamagishi:  Making a decision is faster too, isn't it?
Murakami:  Much faster.  Besides, probably because I got rid of stress, now I am very enthusiastic and have a positive attitude.
Yamagishi:  That's good.  I am very enthusiastic too, and find myself creating new kinds of energy types. After "Papaberu" I've created more than 25 of them, and although I don't have trouble with my head, we haven't caught up with the CD's production.
Murakami:  Since you have learnt so many things lately, I haven't been able catch up with you.  Therefore, now it is difficult for me to talk about those topics with you.
Yamagishi:  Everything is becoming more medical and specialized.  Some things have become more difficult to understand if medical knowledge is not possessed, and in proportion they have become more effective.  However, some kind of energy types such as "Papaberu" or "Cambio de Energía" have a wide field of action.
Murakami:  "Cambio de Energíia" is a Spanish term,  isn't it?  What is it about?
Yamagishi:  It is about something that removes negative or bad energy from a person, and then returns positive or good energy to that same person.
Murakami:  Supposing that energy is present in every cell, when we say it's negative,  what's its form or state?  Could it be weariness, for example?
Yamagishi:  I could believe it corresponds to a state in which waste substances have accumulated.  For instance, if muscles are overexercised, fatigue-provoking substances like lactic acid are produced.
If blood circulation is normal, wastes are collected and nutrients transported, but if muscles are tired, lactic acid accumulates in them.  I believe energy has similar characteristics.
Murakami:  Regarding this type of energy, when it decreases, the person is left in a very bad condition, isn't he?
Yamagishi:  That's correct.  The person is left without streng; feeling like doing nothing.
Murakami:  But, it can cause a misunderstanding one more time.  Some people might confuse that with believing that mental motives are the cause of feeling unvigorous.
Yamagishi:  That might be true, but I think those are different things.
Murakami:  In the United States many cases of what is called "Chronic Fatigue Syndrome" are present.  People who suffer from it don't show any apparent problem when they are examined.  However, those people don't feel like doing anything. The way to treat that syndrome effectively hasn't been discovered yet.
Is there any type of energy producing a positive effect on those people?
Yamagishi:  Basically, "Papaberu" is effective against any disease.  If muscular tension is eliminated, pressure on the body disappears too.  When the neck or shoulders get contracted pressure on the spinal column is felt,  isn't it?
Since the sympathic and the parasympathic nerves emerge from both sides of the spine , if they are pressed the heart can't function properly.  If muscles are relaxed, many diseases cease to exist because pressure on the  body disappears.  Even myself, I never imagined it would be so effective.
Murakami:  You also created this one without noticing it, didn't you?  You didn't attain it as a result of spending days and nights looking through the microscope, did you? (laughter)
Yamagishi:  The proof is that I, who created it, don't know how it happened (laughter).

THE ANCIENT FEELING OF BEING ONE WITH NATURE

Murakami:  Talking about a romantic subject, is the total amount of energy contained in the universe already defined?
Yamagishi:  I've heard it is, but you should ask a professor in physics.
Murakami:  Without talking about physical energy, but about what we call energy, what  happens?
Yamagishi:  I can't tell you.
Murakami:  If it were something defined, when you introduce energy into an element, it would mean you are taking it from any other place.
Yamagishi:  Certainly, it must be so.  The raw material is free (laughter).  So you can take advantage by transforming and using it (laughter).
Murakami: Do you mean that a person who is in a relatively close site, like Brasil for example, or the seventh planet referring to a more distant place, suddenly loses energy?
Yamagishi:  It could be so.
Murakami:  But it isn't preestablished like a regulation or a price.
Yamagishi:  That's right (laughter).  I think there must be an enormous amount.
Murakami:  For instance,  Papaberu's energy acts directly upon muscles. Right?
So it means that the energy corresponding to muscles is inserted in items like CD's, isn't it?
Yamagishi:  Yes, it does.
Murakami:  Is that energy, qualitatively speaking, the same as that found in muscles?
Yamagishi:  I don't know if that´s true.  But I am under the impression that the energy frequency used in Kikou is more similar to the original energy frequency of men than to the one we use.
I believe that's the reason why, concerning Kikou, a greater force is required. I think it would be more efficient if a larger frequency were used.
I consider that as capacity improves, the frequency increases.  Although these types of frequencies can't be measured, you can notice that they continue improving and becoming more perfect.  As they become more perfect, things that coudn't be done before, start to be done.  Energy undergoes changes.

DOES EVERY PLACE HAVE ITS OWN ENERGY TOO?

Murakami:  Once you told me that when you visited Peru or Izumo sanctuary, an eruption on your face appeared.  Does that mean that energy is present in those places?
Yamagishi:  That's something that can't be understood.  It doesn't happen necessarily in places related to sanctuaries.  It happened to me in Shibuya and in a museum, too.
Murakami:  Do you mean that not only living beings but also places may be full of energy?
Yamagishi:  Since sometimes the eruption didn't appear on my forehead despite being  in the same location, I believe energy is not always located in the same place.  I've been in Izumo sanctuary more than ten times, but only in three of them the eruption appeared.  I also went to Ise-Jinguu temple, but no eruption was present there.
I really don't understand what's going on since eruptions were present in places I was visiting for the first time.
Murakami:  To say that it is not limited by the place makes it more real.
Yamagishi:  In some way it gives me the impression that it is alive.
Even visiting the same place, sometimes I feel the energy strongly, and some other times I don't feel it at all.
Although I can't express it clearly, I believe that energy is alive and for that reason, phenomena like that in which sometimes I feel the energy and other times don't, occur.
Murakami:  Does it move too?
Yamagishi:  Yes, I think something like that happens.  The interesting thing about it is that energy is not necessarily located in the place to where people are directing their prayers, but in a different place.  It is frequently located and felt in the back of them.
Murakami:  Is it possible that ancient people had possessed the ability to perceive this energy and had built structures in order to attract it?
Yamagishi:  I believe that in ancient times, since they didn't have an excessive amount of information as we do now, they might have had sufficient peace of mind as to make contact, feel, and think about that energy.  It is also possible that there were people with a more developed sensibility who could feel the energy and made an extensive use of it.
I suppose that this type of energy, although now is treated as something special, was something common for ancient people.  Certainly they obtained wisdom from it. I don't mean knowledge, but wisdom; wisdom to create or perceive something.
Even though it is frequently said that ancient people were foolish, I presume they weren't at all.
For example, if they didn't drive was because cars didn't exist and not because they were fool.
Furthermore, there were brilliant people like Leonardo Da Vinci.  There isn't doubt that in every epoch outstanding individuals have existed.
Murakami:  Since they were simpler people, they were more open to many things, including surprise and emotion.
Yamagishi:  That's correct. Certainly, that's why they perceived things in a more open way, without talking about God or things like that, but being in direct contact with nature or visiting places where they felt better.
Murakami:  Maybe they looked at things in a more natural way and for that reason answers were more direct.
Yamagishi:  Yes, that's true.  Therefore, I believe it wasn't necessary to adopt postures.
Murakami:  I am under  the impression that if that energy was transformed into an image, it would be a kind of aurora.  Once, I saw the aurora in Finland.  People from that place said it was a dog and also said that if you whistle, it approaches.  Surprisigly, that time after doing it, it got closer quickly.
If energy were imagined as something visible, it would be like an aurora flow.
Perhaps one particle at a time could be like one cell of a living organism, but looking at it altogether is the aurora that spreads.
In many countries of the world there are legends about dragons flying in the sky, devouring everything in their way, or saving something or someone.
I guess that the excitement or surprise felt by ancient people when getting in touch with some kind of energy might have been the reason for creating those legends.
Yamagishi:  When humans see something that they have never seen before, they represent that by using the most similar thing they know.  Although the interpretation or representation might be different according to the epoch and the people involved, actually they may have the same meaning.